Stuttering problem (2 Viewers)

[igalan]

MP is sometimes a bit temperamental. I keep updated Ghost images, so in case things like this happens, I can get the system exactly as it was at that time (or at least rule out a software problem). I also do daily database backups, so in case I have to do a full system restore, I have the updated database of Media Portal.

Sorry, I know the frustration that causes when something that was working breaks for no aparent reason. In the past I had to reinstall MP several times in a row because TV stopped working with no aparent reason (and kept a backup of the non working installation, so when I have time I may find out what happened).

 

[iamfrank]

And then there was love. I installed TV Server 3 to see how it performed under the same conditions. It stutters over the interference and then recovers as soon as it stopped.

It didn't make my BSOD go away with the bloody Fusion card though, so I used my frustration to disassemble an old Twinhan VisionPlus DTV card I had lying around with the antenna socket snapped off. Finally got it all back together and voila, love so far. I'm going to leave it on over night and see how it goes.

Thanks for putting the bug in Taipan, I saw it on Mantis. Now to tweak TV Server to perform the same so my gf can drive it properly

 

[jcee]

Hi mrman,

the problem here is that (usually) stuttering is not MPs fault. In other words, on the vast majority of systems we can't do anything about it. It happens at a level far lower than we are dealing with. Stuttering is caused by several things. Among them

1. CPU hungry process such as automatic update (shown as svchost), antivirus, etc,
2. Bad TV card drivers
3. Bad Video card drivers - for instance, I can't use the latest nvidia version without stuttering, and there is nothing I can do about it
3. Not updating quartz.dll to the version I've posted above
4. Using decoders that are not very good (DScaler, MPV, Intervideo) instead of NVIDIA or WinDVD

We know about the problem, its just not within our capability to fix it. Some systems just have problems based on hardware/configuration. We can only make suggestions about how to fix your system.

I was reading through all these pages of the thread, but when I came across this post (not meant negatve) I had to stop and reply:

I am checking out MP since over 1 year now and the last weeks I had this particular problem. I stutters every once in a while. I did 5 full days of troubleshooting and I am working with computers professionally, nevertheless I did not fix that problem. I reinstalled 5 times, I tried all different kind of codecs, all motherboard drivers (I could find), replaced quartz.dll, rewired my DVB-C cable connection (have FireDTV) and that did not fix at all.

I did clean install with XP Pro SP2, all patches/updates. Nevertheless the same problem.

I do not want to say that developers are not supportive (Actually I thing they are doing a good job), and I do not want to sound politically, BUT....

When I am spending 60% of my spare time for trying to make this baby working and only 10% for watching TV/ beeing able to enjoy, them something must be terribly wrong..:!!!
(Won't tell you what the other 30% are. ;-) )

I honour the hard work and the voluntary work and effort.. all the energy put into this project, but I was not able enjoying TV. MP is promissing so much! Plugins, features, options,.. but when it comes to the basic is not able to do what it is expected to.

And the reason is... the guys to point the finger at.... THE OTHERS...! Meaning MS, driver developers, board manufactors.... etc..

Do not get my wrong, I do not want to be impolite to anybody.
As I have not paied, I can not request support..!


The bottomline is: It does not help poiting to the others. Maybe the path is wrong. Maybe MS is not the platform. All this overloaded stuff!!! Look at your Task Manager, over 250MB for MP, TV service. MSSQL etc.. "just" for watching TV and it does not work ..

Ok, I am very frustrated at the time writing. Do not get me wrong. I would buy whatever hardware/software is neccessary to get it stable and runnning whithout problems for a couple of month, but I slightly wonder if this could be done anytime.. .

Maybe I should give up all the fancy features that MP offers and go and buy a PVR like Tivo, Dreambox, Reelbox etc..

The are not that fancy, but it works.. and you can rely on it.. !! Looking back the last 5 months we had more than 10(!) occasions wacthing TV in the evening and that babe freezed/locked/needed restart/stutters/pops up with error/update messages/remote not working/remote lost focus..
*grrrrrrrr*

Honestly, I believe MP is much better than other PVRs, but maybe the path is the weong one..
Simple and stupid is sometimes the best choice when it comes to the elementary things of ordianry life.. like TV..

Ok, not to get even more into frustration, lets think about a general idea:

What about starting a "MAX STABILITY THREAD". Something which says: THIS is the recommended install, THIS is the recommended hardware, THESE are the drivers to install, no newer, no older...

Instead of telling. "Look we have a fancy HTPC software, you guys can use whatever hardware/software you have... Oh...! It freezes, hmmm.. that is a drivers fault", you could concider saying..
"We have an app, it is doing good at supporting all you hard/software out there, but here comes the things to stay with and we can guarantee(!) satisfaction".

Because noone can guarantee satisfaction with MP as too much driver, hardware and MS stuff is involved.

Ok, all said.

Do not get me wrong: Do not want to mess up with you, not meant to blame you guys and developers. Just a really honest expressions of feelings after one year of hard work to keep MP up to date and running in a typical household of an engineer proffesionally working computers*)

*) BTW: I am working in an industry which utilizes commonc PC for control of industrial process units. We are in a similar position: Vendors moving from properitary systems to the every-one-knows Windows worls. We are fighting hard to keep up reliability and we are in that learning curve of vendors pointing to MS for the problem.. but gain, then it is advertised the wrong way (=we support all the hard/software), or MS is the wrong platform..

 

[jcee]

I can reproduce the problem by flicking a light switch on and off repeatedly, it causes enough interference in the antenna cable to cause the stuttering

So, the cause of the problem is interference to the TV signal - due to low TV signal level, or poor shielding of the TV lead-in. I suggest that the best solution is to solve the cause, rather than try to get MediaPortal to handle the errors better.

Alright guys, where to from now?

You need to get a better quality signal from the TV antenna to your TV card :-
1. make sure the TV antenna is top quality, high-gain, mounted as high as possible and aimed correctly for maximum signal pickup
2. the co-ax cable must be quad shielded and all connectors should be "F-type" screw-in connectors
3. eliminate any "splitters" in the TV signal path
4. fit a mast-head amplifier (only if absolutely necessary)
5. check that the mains supply is earthed correctly and the TV co-ax is earthed correctly.

The above steps will ensure that you get "stutter-free" viewing performance ....

I did already all what you suggested to no luck,
I tried also antenna amps in between.. I am living in a rental flat, so there is nothing I can do anymore..

I agree, other codec/app combinations like Nero do better at compensating the interferences.
Maybe it is not the most realistic recommendation to blame the cables and connectors and antennas in a real world where (and Nero e.g does this) interferences have to be expected!?!

I bought me one of the most expensive TV cards here (FireDTV) and replaced all my cables, I am an electrical engineer and I somehow find it ridiciouls talking about these wires when the old previous STB was working well with all that old cables and splitters...

Honestly, I think it should be handled by MP...

I am using Nvidias pure video and have the same problems. Maybe Nvidias codec cannot handle errors in the stream.. or might it be the VMR process?!

We need a path to a solution. I bought me Pure video drivers lately because they are recommended for best quality, but maybe that is not the best recommendation (in terms of stability)

 

[jcee]

Apolgies in advance, I've not been in a good mood since for some unknown reason MP also stopped playing DVD's on my machine this morning too

What is the problem?`

I am in the same position (=stuttering). After reinstall no Video was showing at all, all of them where black. (audio was fine).

For me it was a problem with hardware acceleration and latest Nvidia drivers.
Try reducing hardware acceleration in control panel (troublehsooting) to at least the third position from left.
OR did you update drivers? For a couple(!) of restarts after installing latest Nvidia drivers playback was not working. Found out that Version 85.x was fine for me..

Maybe that helps

I did all the things like drivers/patches/cables/etc...

 

[tourettes]

I am in the same position (=stuttering). After reinstall no Video was showing at all, all of them where black. (audio was fine).

Have you tested following:

1) Record a 1 hour clip from the tv using MP
2) Use VideoReDo to remux the whole file (save as)
3) See if there are any errors in the remuxing
4) Do 1-3 steps with some other PVR software

If both recordings have issues when remuxing the signal or HW is to blame for the stuttering.

 

[jcee]

I will check with VideoReDo tommorrow.

I thought about some solutions in general as we are talking about some general problems

1. Is there a possibility to view/display antenna signal/stream errors? Could that a least be done with an external app?

2. MP seems to be much less tolerant to stream errors than others. E.g. I could always play my recording in Nero without stutters/stopps.

3. devs: Might it make sense to write an external wizard which checks the system? I would expect from such an app that it can tune to a channel, monitor and analyse the stream and report rate of error. That app should also allow to test the whole playback system etc..

remark to 2.
I believe the problem is not caused in MP, but it must be a combination of a problematic stream beeing demuxed, decoded and send to rendering. It might even be that the codecs work fine but just forward the error to the (VMR) renderer.
Whenever this long chain breaks the problem shows up to the user.
What about Nero? Maybe it sets up a special graph or its own codec filters out bad data that is dangerous to the renderer?!

remark to 3.
I know it sounds like lot of extra work and it is about "doing the other ones job". You would expect all the stuff like OS,codecs,renderes,driver working fine. But actually they do not! And many many people are struggling with it. I would say >90% of the problems are based on the external stuff.

Though such kind of a wizard might first look as an extra job, but maybe it is worth the effort.

Such a wizard could "certify" your installation and setup for stable MP operation.
Over time additional test could be added like, startup optimization, background tasks running, reg tweaks etc..
Based on the experience in this forum each monitored setting could be classified into "good, maybe problematic, known to cause problem, serious".

MP is relying on windows plattform/drivers and this turns out in many cases to not beeing reliable out-of-the-box.



What do you think? No other HTPC software does this, but the problems are there.

 

[Porsemo]

I use the Nvidia PureVideo codec and when watching live TV (Hauppage PVR-500 MCE edition) the image stutters (it goes down from 50fps to 25fps) depending on the "Deinterlace Control" setting.

It stutters...

...not at all when I choose "Automatic".
...all the time when I choose "Film".
...not at all when I choose "Video".
...and if I choose "Smart" it stutters randomly but more often when viewing a channel with bad reception, for some channels it stutters all the time.

The stutters drove me almost crazy before I figured that out. At first I thought it was because I had uppgraded the gfx drivers and the PureVideo codec, or that I had somehow managed to change the bitrate of the tv card to a higher rate than it could manage. So I lowered the bitrate to 6000 (was 9000) and went into the Nvidia thingy to see if the bitrate really dropped and it did, still stutters tho, and that's when I remembered that I had changed the value in the drop down list for deinterlace. At first I had it on "Automatic" but I had to change it because there were interlace artifacts when watching DVD:s. I read somwere that "Smart" was the way to go but apparently not...

 

[diehard2]

Hi porsemo,

It most likely is not the bitrate (directly anyway). I have a 1.3 Ghz P4 and I can run up to 12 Mbps with the NVIDIA decoders without a problem. I would update the PVR drivers, and your video card drivers and see if that helps. What video card are you using. You need one with a decent amount of horsepower.

 

[Porsemo]

Thanks for the reply diehard2, wasn't really expecting one since my setup is fine and stutter free if I choose "Automatic" or "Video". The intention of my post was to see if others could be helped by changing to one of those values, sorry if I was unclear

It would be interesting to know why the "Smart" setting gives sort of random results tho, and to know a bit more what the different deinterlacing options do. Anyone know if there are any "official" instructions from Nvidia on this?