Things I noticed with MP2.2 almost within minutes after upgrading it over the 2.13 version (1 Viewer)

JAAHAS

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April 8, 2015
13
1
Finland Finland
I tested the client on three Windows 7 x64 SP1 computers with the same results, so I would be surprised if I am the only one able to reproduce these issues, unless they all can somehow be explained by a faulty configuration on the server side?

First the major issues that make me wish I would have bothered to stop the TV-service and image the OS partitition, but then I might not have been motivated enough to give any feedback so some of these issues might have gone unreported much longer (Or maybe they have been reported already and my Google-Fu failed spectacularly like almost always when there is even a little chance that I am describing something with different words than others do...):

The single channel vertical EPG view is once again only listing the next 24 hours instead of a full week forcing the user to use the timeline view for scheduling. And now the timeline even responds to commands so slowly that pressing the right key a few seconds took about 15-20 seconds to have the "scrolling" to stop. Feel free to fix that also, but please check first why the vertical listing can't access the same amount of data that the selected channel would have had available in the timeline view?

At least the DVB-subtitles are finally shown in Finnish instead of Swedish and the Finnish shows in channels where the text would be burned in the frames don't seem to have the Teletext subtitles for hearing impaired viewers forced on anymore.

I would consider this a great win even though I now need to use another computer with the 2.13 version for scheduling, but alas, the subtitles seem to only work if they are off by default and have not been left manually on from a previous playback session. In other words, while starting to watch new or unfinished episode I need to start the show, turn off the subtitles, close the show, start it again and turn the subtitles back on to see them again.

I also managed to crash the client multiple times already just by testing the subtitles, so at least the DVB-playback seems to be rather unstable at the moment (the scheduling side seems to be stable as always).

Then the annoyances that I didn't have with the MP1.x:

The client still doesn't select any program in single channel vertical EPG view or in the recordings list automatically, apparently the user is expected to fiddle with the arrow keys until something gets highlighted.

The single channel EPG view resets to the current day when another channel is selected, anyone underlining shows on a printed TV-guide would surely wish to schedule all channels for a day, then move to the next day and cycle the channels again without needing to waste time on scrolling from the beginning. The default skin doesn't even allow warping from the top to the bottom, so the user can't even take a shortcut that way after scheduling the first four days.

And finally a minor nitpick from a XKCD fan:

The EPG-interface also doesn't respect a yyyy-MM-dd date format, but at least the 24 hour time format now seems to work everywhere instead of any EPG views overriding it with the AM/PM format.

The main thing I felt missing from the MP1.x was the proper mouse support and a seekbar to click with the cursor, now those are available on the MP2, but the interface is still lacking in other areas that the old version handled far better. If only there would exist a dedicated scheduling app forked from the MP1.x version to support the new TV-service until the new client is finally ready to supersede it completely.
 

HTPCSourcer

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    I tested the client on three Windows 7 x64 SP1 computers with the same results,
    Are you saying you just replaced the client installation but left the server at 2.1.3 level? Then you are testing an incomplete setup. The TVServer plugin has been raised to MP1's 1.20 level, however, you need to also upgrade the server installation to benfit from this change.

    And now the timeline even responds to commands so slowly that pressing the right key a few seconds took about 15-20 seconds
    I can't reproduce this here.This sounds more like WIndows' auto-repeat kicking in. I don't have that issue here.

    The single channel vertical EPG view is once again only listing the next 24 hours instead of a full week
    For this specific feature I remember internal discussions where we were wondering why anybody would want more than just a day. One of the reasons why we publish pre-releases is to gather user comments and identify bugs, so you missed a good opportunity to provide input from your side.:( This could have easily been released differently as it doesn't make a difference for us, yet you seem to be the only person who is keen on using this feature.:)

    The EPG-interface also doesn't respect a yyyy-MM-dd date format, but at least the 24 hour time format
    Not sure what you mean. This is what I am getting here: day/time clearly visible:
    24hr.JPG

    At least the DVB-subtitles are finally shown in Finnish instead of Swedish and the Finnish
    Nothing has been changed at the DVB side.The respective Jira is still open. Instabilities might also be due to the TVServer plugin not having been upgraded. At this point this is all speculative since you have not provided any logs.

    The client still doesn't select any program in single channel vertical EPG view or in the recordings list automatically
    It does here.
    Select.JPG

    even though I now need to use another computer with the 2.13 version for scheduling
    ???

    The single channel EPG view resets to the current day when another channel is selected
    All EPG views reset to the current day. There is no perfect solution for this. Consider the situation where somebody looks up what's on a particular channel next week, but then wants to get back to today's view for standard lookups of what's on now. One would need yet another control on each screen to switch back to current view. If you would like this to get implemented, please raise a feature request.
     

    JAAHAS

    Portal Member
    April 8, 2015
    13
    1
    Finland Finland
    Are you saying you just replaced the client installation but left the server at 2.1.3 level? Then you are testing an incomplete setup. The TVServer plugin has been raised to MP1's 1.20 level, however, you need to also upgrade the server installation to benfit from this change.
    No, as one of the client computers also acts as a server for others it was the first one to get updated

    I can't reproduce this here.This sounds more like WIndows' auto-repeat kicking in. I don't have that issue here.
    Now that I tested it again I think what caused me to see it first as a lag might be that the sideways scrolling seems to jump from one rectangle to the next taking the same regardless of the width of the rectangles, which makes the timeline not move smoothly. But one thing is certain, the single channel vertical EPG view scrolls faster and with steady rate. The program names are also clearly visible unlike in the timeline view:
    upload_2018-11-9_1-40-16.png


    For this specific feature I remember internal discussions where we were wondering why anybody would want more than just a day. One of the reasons why we publish pre-releases is to gather user comments and identify bugs, so you missed a good opportunity to provide input from your side.:( This could have easily been released differently as it doesn't make a difference for us, yet you seem to be the only person who is keen on using this feature.:)
    The screenshot I at least tried to post above should clearly shows what makes me once again feel like I am the one being teleported to a Bizarro world. The timeline view for me is just barely tolerable for checking what is currently being shown or just about to start, for scheduling one weeks recordings I would rather consult a printed TV-guide and then use the EPG search view in MP2 to find and schedule them if the vertical view stays limited to 24 hours.

    I also used Terratec Home Cinema for DVB recording for years and its scheduling went like this ():
    1. Open the EPG and switch to a single channel view if it isn't already in that mode
    2. Scroll through the week marking the programs you want to record (it was also possible to skip backwards/forwards one day at the time with the left/right keys)
    3. Switch the next channel with F6 and F7 keys
    4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 for the rest of the channels and close the EPG

    Before that I had some Topfield PVR model that worked similarly, so I am really amazed how my scheduling habits can seem so peculiar when for me it has been the standard ever since I stopped recording TV with a VCR.

    I guess I need to check if one of my faulty dual receiver USB-sticks still has one of the receivers working so that I can set up a test server for the pre-releases.

    Not sure what you mean. This is what I am getting here: day/time clearly visible:
    View attachment 199143
    I meant to have the date like this: xkcd: ISO 8601

    Could it be that the TV-related views may be overriding the MP2's time and date settings with whatever language the OS is using? Well it could be worse, the date and time format could have been determined by the keyboard layout.

    Nothing has been changed at the DVB side.The respective Jira is still open. Instabilities might also be due to the TVServer plugin not having been upgraded. At this point this is all speculative since you have not provided any logs.
    Interesting, I never got the subtitles to work with MP2.13 on my own server and on my parents server while the MP2.2 seems to have been a step in the right direction.

    I think the problem is that the user needs to move the mouse over the program to have the focus locked on to it, otherwise the focus is somewhere else and one ends up hitting the arrow keys until the focus finds its way to the vertical list.

    A better option might be to hide the mouse cursor when the user uses the arrow keys to select something and if they open a new view with the Enter key the cursor would stay dormant until they move it again and then it might as well appear in middle of what ever was selected with the arrow keys or selected by the client automatically when a new view was opened.

    I now have one computer running the MP2.13 client again for scheduling purposes as the EPG API seems to work between it and the MP2.2 server.

    All EPG views reset to the current day. There is no perfect solution for this. Consider the situation where somebody looks up what's on a particular channel next week, but then wants to get back to today's view for standard lookups of what's on now. One would need yet another control on each screen to switch back to current view. If you would like this to get implemented, please raise a feature request.
    MP1 didn't do that, so could we have an option in the settings for how the user wants to handle this and then add five controls to the single channel vertical EPG view: Left/Right for skipping to the next/previous morning (or 24 hours ahead/backwards) , Home for returning to the current day and Ctrl+PageUp/PageDown for cycling the channels?
     

    HTPCSourcer

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    But one thing is certain, the single channel vertical EPG view scrolls faster and with steady rate. The program names are also clearly visible unlike in the timeline view:
    Yes, of course. What else did you expect in a vertical representation vs a horizontal one where the field width is limited?

    The timeline view for me is just barely tolerable for checking what is currently being shown or just about to start
    I don't see an alternative in a horizontal representation. I am also not aware of any different representaiton and the TV EPGs of three different manufacturers in my home display the same behavior. Obviously a 150 min movie will have a broader rectangle than a 5 min news flash. The bottom info view will display the program details

    I think the problem is that the user needs to move the mouse over the program to have the focus locked on to it,
    That's not the case. The currently running show is highlighted and has the focus. What you observe is IMHO due to the fact that you seem to be using a keyboard and a mouse in parallel. Moving the mouse is taking the focus away to wherever the cursor is.

    Could it be that the TV-related views may be overriding the MP2's time and date settings with whatever language the OS is using?
    I don't know. What does the date format look like on your MP2 home screen?

    MP1 didn't do that, so could we have an option in the settings for how the user wants to handle this and then add...
    I have said it before and repeat it again: If you would like to see anything added to the code, you will need to post a feature request in the respective section. However, please limit it to one thing only as it is almost impossible to follow up on many different things in one thread.
     
    Last edited:

    JAAHAS

    Portal Member
    April 8, 2015
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    1
    Finland Finland
    Yes, of course. What else did you expect in a vertical representation vs a horizontal one where the field width is limited?

    I don't see an alternative in a horizontal representation. I am also not aware of any different representaiton and the TV EPGs of three different manufacturers in my home display the same behavior. Obviously a 150 min movie will have a broader rectangle than a 5 min news flash. The bottom info view will display the program details
    Maybe allowing the timeline to scroll at a fast, but steady rate if the user keeps the left/right key pressed and have the scrolling stop immediately afterwards instead of accumulating a buffer that takes long time to go through? Whatever program per each row is in the mid-line would be highlighted and the one on the selected row would have its details shown on the bottom once the movement stops.

    But I don't really mind if others want to keep doing their scheduling in the timeline view at the same way it is now implemented, just as long you don't artificially limit the EPG data from the vertical list view where the user quickly sees 7-11 programs with their full title names and can keep hopping forward with the PageDown key until there comes need to actually select one and check from the details if there is need to record it.

    That's not the case. The currently running show is highlighted and has the focus. What you observe is IMHO due to the fact that you seem to be using a keyboard and a mouse in parallel. Moving the mouse is taking the focus away to wherever the cursor is.
    If the cursor is kept high enough on the screen in the timeline view to not have it hover over any of the rows in the single channel vertical list after selecting channel with arrow keys and pressing Enter, the running show seems to really have the focus, but in order to scroll down I need to first press Up once or the Down key does nothing. So that certainly doesn't seem like an intended way the interface should work?

    I also hope that I am not the only one who thinks that whenever a transition to another view is initiated with the Enter key the mouse should go inert or even invisible to prevent it stealing the focus and therefore causing the interface seem like it behaves erratically?

    I don't know. What does the date format look like on your MP2 home screen?
    Like I configured it in the settings, the time in 24 hour format and under it the date in yyyy-MM-dd format.

    I have said it before and repeat it again: If you would like to see anything added to the code, you will need to post a feature request in the respective section. However, please limit it to one thing only as it is almost impossible to follow up on many different things in one thread.
    The reason I have not yet made any official feature requests was that I didn't at first expect any features I depended on with MP1 being deliberately cut off, but instead them possibly not yet being yet fully implemented on MP2? Obviously that turned out to be a wrong assumption and I now need to start making a bunch of suggestions for getting the missing features back with some added improvements.

    Luckily for you I have a bad habit of wasting many hours "perfecting" my choice of words whenever I do anything but real time face to face communication, so hopefully the floodgates stay in check by most of my silly ideas not even reaching the point where I would start writing about them let alone to post them.
     

    HTPCSourcer

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    any features I depended on with MP1 being deliberately cut off,
    The main misunderstanding is that some people think that MP2 is a further developed MP1 - it is not.

    Like I configured it in the settings, the time in 24 hour format and under it the date in yyyy-MM-dd format
    Out of interest, how did you configure the date? The .Net string displays the time/date information according to the Windows settings, hence the EPG date display may indeed be missing the preset.

    Luckily for you I have a bad habit of wasting many hours "perfecting" my choice of words
    Really? The above postings are full of sarcasm. Your last reply was the first one in this thread that is purely factual, luckily for you because otherwise I would have been out here. Let me remind you that this is not the 1-800 MP2 call center but a place where people are investing their free time to listen to and help you. Sarcasm and irony are inappropriate.
     

    JAAHAS

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    April 8, 2015
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    Finland Finland
    The main misunderstanding is that some people think that MP2 is a further developed MP1 - it is not.
    It is almost but there feature wise, so the end users can't really tell whether something is not yet implemented or not working because of bugs.

    Out of interest, how did you configure the date? The .Net string displays the time/date information according to the Windows settings, hence the EPG date display may indeed be missing the preset.
    I used the MP's regional settings to set the date as "yyyy-MM-dd".

    Really? The above postings are full of sarcasm. Your last reply was the first one in this thread that is purely factual, luckily for you because otherwise I would have been out here. Let me remind you that this is not the 1-800 MP2 call center but a place where people are investing their free time to listen to and help you. Sarcasm and irony are inappropriate.
    I just meant that my dislike of expressing myself in writing is so severe that the idea of getting into a spiral of posts clarifying what I meant drives me to waste many hours on a futile attempt at getting my point across at the first try and being aware of that doesn't really help me otherwise than by having me end up hitting the cancel button more often than not.

    And with that said I can now stay away from the forums until I can muster the energy to start making those feature request.
     

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