To NAS or not? (1 Viewer)

Dr Forinor

Portal Pro
December 21, 2015
201
27
40
Home Country
United Kingdom United Kingdom
Recently my main SSD on my HTPC died, taking away the main OS and MP along with it.

How I was using it was to store the media (mainly videos) on an external WD MyBook and connected via USB to the HTPC.

I've ordered a new SSD to configure back into my HTPC. Initially my thoughts were to go down the route of NAS to have all of my files on there (movies, family videos and photos) and somehow configure it to/through the HTPC.

I didn't have any knowledge of NAS back when I built it over 6 years ago -and I still don't have much knowledge on NAS to be fair. The system was working well and I got lazy and never sorted out a method to store and access other files.

Now that I am having to go through the process of setting it all up again, I thought I would give the storage a serious consideration.

1. I don't mind if my HTPC becomes redundant and a single NAS will do it all, but I want MP1 on it, is that possible with a NAS alone (meaning without the HTPC I was currently using)?

2. NAS or DAS??
a. If DAS, can someone point to a link that can help my knowledge on the subject? And which DAS?
b. If NAS, which NAS? There are a few that come up in my searches, Synology, QNAP, ASUSTOR and specifically the WD PR4100.

I think I've tried to cover everything, I'm sure someone with more knowledge will ask relevant questions that may not have crossed my mind.

Thank you all in advance.
 
Last edited:

CyberSimian

Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2013
    2,465
    1,488
    Southampton
    Home Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    1. I don't mind if my HTPC becomes redundant and a single NAS will do it all, but I want MP1 on it, is that possible with a NAS alone (meaning without the HTPC I was currently using)?
    When people use the term "NAS", they usually mean a computer that is running Linux. MP cannot run on Linux -- MP runs only on Windows. So if you wanted to use a pre-built NAS from (say) Synology, you would need two computers:
    • The NAS running Linux
    • The HTPC running Windows and MP
    The Windows equivalent of a NAS would (I think) be Windows Server. I have a vague recollection that MP did not run on Windows Server, due to some required files not being included with Windows Server. However, that may have been fixed by now. A user who runs MP on Windows Server will need to confirm that it is possible and what the problems are.

    I am not sure what you are expecting a NAS to provide that an installation of Windows Home or Windows Professional does not. Windows Home can provide files to other computers on your home network, and Windows Home can be setup with RAID that offers protection from disk failure. You need to have more than one disk -- typically you have to allocate one entire disk to store "parity" (or other) information that is used to protect the data. So in an n-disk RAID system, you would have storage capacity of n-1 disks. RAID systems that provide stronger protection against disk failure require two disks to be allocated to parity.

    I don't what a DAS is.

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK
     

    joecrow

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • August 9, 2012
    2,113
    1,489
    Home Country
    Germany Germany
    I've ordered a new SSD to configure back into my HTPC. Initially my thoughts were to go down the route of NAS to have all of my files on there (movies, family videos and photos) and somehow configure it to/through the HTPC.
    I guess much depends on how much storage you need and how accessible it needs to be. I have an awful lot of movies photos music and vids and I am still a long way from filling up a 4 TB hard disk (cost about €80,- these days) on my HTPC. As @CyberSimian mentioned it is very straight forward to make that accessible on a Windows home network if required or to an MP Client.
    SSDs are very reliable these days but even so I would recommend you get a good backup program, (not sure if you get anything free these days with Win 10 /11) but I prefer that to a raid array which can I believe be incompatible with different motherboards/CPUs in the event a replacement is required, whereas you can usually rebuild an OS from a backup on an entirely different set of hardware.

    I don't what a DAS is.
    Directly Attached Storage, e.g. a sata connected disk on an HTPC/Desktop PC.

    Quote Dr Forinor "If DAS, can someone point to a link that can help my knowledge on the subject? And which DAS?"

    I have always had very good results with WD Blue hard disks see here
     
    Last edited:

    Dr Forinor

    Portal Pro
    December 21, 2015
    201
    27
    40
    Home Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    When people use the term "NAS", they usually mean a computer that is running Linux. MP cannot run on Linux -- MP runs only on Windows. So if you wanted to use a pre-built NAS from (say) Synology, you would need two computers:
    • The NAS running Linux
    • The HTPC running Windows and MP
    The Windows equivalent of a NAS would (I think) be Windows Server. I have a vague recollection that MP did not run on Windows Server, due to some required files not being included with Windows Server. However, that may have been fixed by now. A user who runs MP on Windows Server will need to confirm that it is possible and what the problems are.

    I am not sure what you are expecting a NAS to provide that an installation of Windows Home or Windows Professional does not. Windows Home can provide files to other computers on your home network, and Windows Home can be setup with RAID that offers protection from disk failure. You need to have more than one disk -- typically you have to allocate one entire disk to store "parity" (or other) information that is used to protect the data. So in an n-disk RAID system, you would have storage capacity of n-1 disks. RAID systems that provide stronger protection against disk failure require two disks to be allocated to parity.

    I don't what a DAS is.

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK

    I've read up a little more after posting yesterday. I think I have a slightly better understanding of what I want to achieve. So if we ignore what my initial questions were, I'll post my thoughts down below.

    I guess much depends on how much storage you need and how accessible it needs to be. I have an awful lot of movies photos music and vids and I am still a long way from filling up a 4 TB hard disk (cost about €80,- these days) on my HTPC. As @CyberSimian mentioned it is very straight forward to make that accessible on a Windows home network if required or to an MP Client.
    SSDs are very reliable these days but even so I would recommend you get a good backup program, (not sure if you get anything free these days with Win 10 /11) but I prefer that to a raid array which can I believe be incompatible with different motherboards/CPUs in the event a replacement is required, whereas you can usually rebuild an OS from a backup on an entirely different set of hardware.


    Directly Attached Storage, e.g. a sata connected disk on an HTPC/Desktop PC.

    Quote Dr Forinor "If DAS, can someone point to a link that can help my knowledge on the subject? And which DAS?"

    I have always had very good results with WD Blue hard disks see here
    I can easily fill a 2Tb with family stuff alone (I do family videos - meaning edits of whole holidays, on top of the casual video recording and taking pictures). I already have almost 7Tb (of total collection, family, media etc) of stuff which didn't take me terribly long to accumulate.

    -------------

    So to add to that I've already received the 16Tb (WD Red Pro - yes perhaps overkill, but I am in the position to get something robust and I always prefer to do that if I am able to) that I ordered last week prior to posting here. I will order another 16Tb to allow RAID, don't want to lose my stuff.

    Plan;
    - Retain my current HTPC, new SSD going in, will get Windows 10 back up on it and MP1 set up and configured.

    Revised question;
    - What is the best solution for organising the 2x 16Tb drives to allow me to access those files from the HTPC, but also streamable to devices? Still a NAS? Or something else? I do not have space inside of the HTPC case to accomodate those 2x 16Tb drives, so they will have to be externally stored.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Thank you for your help so far.
     

    joecrow

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • August 9, 2012
    2,113
    1,489
    Home Country
    Germany Germany
    Would this do the job I am looking for? Or is this overkill?
    Seems like overkill to me and you would be throttling down down those 6 G bit SATA drives through a 2 G bit at best Ethernet connection! On the other hand it looks like it has a bunch of very useful features and could clearly expand with your needs though of course it means another box to manage. I guess the other alternative would be to get a new HTPC case which will allow you to install the 2 16GB disks, most likely much cheaper but more work perhaps!
     

    Dr Forinor

    Portal Pro
    December 21, 2015
    201
    27
    40
    Home Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Seems like overkill to me and you would be throttling down down those 6 G bit SATA drives through a 2 G bit at best Ethernet connection! On the other hand it looks like it has a bunch of very useful features and could clearly expand with your needs though of course it means another box to manage. I guess the other alternative would be to get a new HTPC case which will allow you to install the 2 16GB disks, most likely much cheaper but more work perhaps!

    Is there a NAS that won't throttle like the one above? Any other negatives about that NAS?

    I'm going it find it very difficult to find a case that will accommodate my current components along with the extra drives, and still fit where it needs to fit - so that is unlikely a viable option.
     

    Dr Forinor

    Portal Pro
    December 21, 2015
    201
    27
    40
    Home Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    This is the third and final NAS I have my eye on

     

    CyberSimian

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2013
    2,465
    1,488
    Southampton
    Home Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Since you don't have space in your HTPC for the two 16TB disks, either:
    • Purchase a diskless NAS device and install the disks in it, or
    • Purchase a larger HTPC case, one that is big enough to accommodate the disks (plus any additional disks that you might need in the future).
    The Western Digital MyCloud Pro PR4100 satisfies the first alternative, and gives you two spare bays to expand the NAS in the future. Be aware that generally the disks in a NAS need to be all the same size. This is related to the way that the NAS protects against disk failure.

    Some other points to consider:
    • NAS devices generally contain one or more fans to keep the disks cool. These fans may or may not be too noisy to be acceptable in a quiet lounge, so you need to think about where you would place the NAS in your household.
    • Some NAS devices can sleep or hibernate if they have not been accessed for a user-defined period of time, but other NAS devices will only spin down the disks -- the NAS remains powered up all of the time (unless you switch it off manually, of course).
    • NAS devices protect against disk failure by storing the recovery information in what may be regarded as a proprietary format. This means that if the NAS itself fails, you may well be compelled to purchase another NAS from the same manufacturer in order to recover your data (because only that manufacturer's NAS devices will understand the data format used by that manufacturer).
    I think that most NAS experts would argue that the primary advantage of a NAS is availability. If you run an internet shop, you need a NAS that will continue running even if one of the disks fails, otherwise you will lose business. That does not apply for most domestic users. You want your data protected, but you don't need 24-hour availability of the data.

    On balance I would agree with @joecrow that using a separate backup program is a better way to protect your data than using a RAID setup on a NAS.

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Similar threads

    Then you didn’t use Nereus Skin in MP2. tMM does a great job in combination with MP2 it’s the best, if you ask me.
    Then you didn’t use Nereus Skin in MP2. tMM does a great job in combination with MP2 it’s the best, if you ask me.
    I have been a relatively happy user of MP1 for quite a while. My setup is a dedicated HTPC connected to my TV, a TV capture device...
    Replies
    8
    Views
    1K
    This is how UAC works, the Media Portal itself runs under a user account, and the Configurator under an Administrator account/rights, the Administrator may not see your shared folders, especially if they are mapped to a drive letter (Because under his account, the shared folders were not mapped to the drive letter).
    This is how UAC works, the Media Portal itself runs under a user account, and the Configurator under an Administrator...
    Hi all, I am thinking this is most likely a Windows issue rather than a MP problem but I thought I would see if there is any advice...
    Replies
    1
    Views
    1K
    Yes, it has an own input manager. Have you tired in inbuild input manager? I need a clear step by step failure description inside MP2. Please also set your logs to debug and upload the logs with the failure description. Both is described in forum and Wiki.
    Yes, it has an own input manager. Have you tired in inbuild input manager? I need a clear step by step failure description inside...
    HI users of MP2, so I have big problems to get Harmony 650 running with MP2. There is no problem running it with MP1 & WMC and...
    Replies
    1
    Views
    300
    Well, I've found out what it was :) People's advice to run the tvservice as the normal user was correct, but it turns out that Windows won't run a service as a user with no password. It doesn't complain when you set the user in the service properties, but fails with a login error when it tries to start the service. Adding a password...
    Well, I've found out what it was :) People's advice to run the tvservice as the normal user was correct, but it turns out that...
    I've moved a load of my old recordings onto a NAS to clear space on my internal drive. I've pointed the recording directory of an...
    Replies
    23
    Views
    9K
    Sorry logfiles might help...
    Sorry logfiles might help...
    From a beginner seeking further help. OK so my tv recordings go into default location and appear on the TV menu. Also if I copy wtv...
    Replies
    16
    Views
    2K
    Top Bottom