TV Service doesn't start automatically with XP (2 Viewers)

[HTPCSourcer]

I am running MS SQLExpress 2012. You can of course use the more recent 2014 version.

 

[CathodeRay]

The HTPC has Windows MCE (fully updated (including up to dotnet 4.x) so in effect close to XP SP3+) so I may need to avoid the latest MS SQLExpress. We all know what MS think about anything to do with XP these days. I can look into it. Any thoughts on just installing the database engine as is, and then telling tvserver to use it? I haven't been able to find a way of triggering the MP setup database connection dialog where you choose which database to use and set the password etc. I thought (based on the wiki) setuptv.exe --configure-db might do it but no dice. I've also found some notes from when I did the last (current) install in 2012 which suggest deploy thingy objected to my HTPC's OS and I had to do some sort of work-around to get it to run at all.

Talking of the setup database connection dialog - I now recall that on one instance of running tv-config near the start of this debacle that connection dialog did pop up. The entries looked OK and I just pressed enter and it connected but I wonder if it somehow messed up something?

 

[HTPCSourcer]

We all know what MS think about anything to do with XP these days.

That should not affect SQL Express, but you can of course use 2008 but 2012 will also work.

Any thoughts on just installing the database engine as is, and then telling tvserver to use it?

Obviously you can just adjust the connection string in the config file. Unfortunately this still calls for a working copy of mptvdb, which somebody would need to provide (no issue). But then you have the issue of having to set the correct IP address in the database. Also possible with the management console.

It is probably easier, safer and faster to just install MP again. Rename the existing directories, uninstall, reinstall and copy the dlls you had manually added/patched.

 

[Vasilich]

not sure about the IP address - networks do my head in. The HTPC as you know is called media-pc, and that's the name I use. There's no router in the setup. Most of the time the HTPC isn't connected to another computer; when it is, it is via an ethernet cable

i have similar setup at home, and solved the problem with long start of mysql when network connection isn't available with adding MS loopback adapter driver as a virtual network card that is always there, and configuring MP TV Server pointing to that loopback adapter IP.

 

[CathodeRay]

Vasilich - I'm not sure how or why adding a virtual network card would help, given that until the recent database problems there was no such card and everything worked fine. I thought, but am happy to be corrected, that the only 'networking' going on in a single seat installation was the TV client getting streamed TV from the server - sort of tv-over-ip if you like, though its all happening on one local machine.

My current options appear to be:

1. Hope MySQL can be fixed. This may or may not happen, but if it can be, it is the best, most appealing option, and 'neater' in that a problem has been fixed.

2. Use MS SQLEx. MS say the minimum OS for the 2012 version is Vista, and most of the installer are huge (one is over 1GB) and that stinks of bloatware, given the earlier installers for 2005/2008 version were less than 100MB. Interesting there is a local DB version of MS SQLEx at arounf 30MB which might just be OK as this is a single seat install. From MS:

New to the Express family, LocalDB is a lightweight version of Express that has all its programmability features, yet runs in user mode and has a fast, zero-configuration installation and short list of pre-requisites. Use this if you need a simple way to create and work with databases from code. It can be bundled with Application and Database Development tools like Visual Studio and or embedded with an application that needs local databases.

If that isn't suitable or doesn't like MCE then I'd probably go with the 2008 version.

Changing the DB with minimum risk/downtime:

I have now established how to get the setup database connection dialog: its setuptv.exe /configure-db, not --configure-db as one entry in the MP wiki has it. This is an example of what I mean about the wiki - can be very frustrating!

I wonder what will happen if I:

1. export channels etc (to .xml)

2. stop tvserver and mysql service for good measure

3. install whichever version of MS SQLEx I end up with

4. make sure the MS SQLEx and tvserver services are running

5. run the setup database connection dialog

6. import the channels etc from the .xml file create in step 1

The key 'gap' in this is whether MP will create a new MS SQLEx version of mptvdb. It does if you are on MySQL and you drop the mptvdb: it just creates a new database.

 

[CathodeRay]

Well, I tried steps 1-6 above starting with MS SQLEx 2005 (as that's what's in the setup database connection window) and promptly got into database hell. At the end of it all, the test connection failed (some guff about no secure account for that name). Tried using user id = sa and my account name, no dice. Checking this forum for a suitable user id, I came across a number of threads all pretty much confirming getting a connection involves all sorts of different authentication installing this or that tweaking here and there - database hell. Fired up Revo Uninstaller and got rid of as much of MS SQLEx as I could. Not keen to try MS SQLEx 2008 (SP1) as that looks even more complicated...

Tested live tv: amazingly it is still working, quite amazing, even channels and EPG data still present.

I've made the point before, but I think it gets over-looked: installing MP (or redoing parts of it) really does seem to be set up to be as complicated as it can be. I'm not an idiot, but have now been struggling with this for over three days in total. We're not really any nearer why mysql has developed this slow start problem or what to do to fix it. For now maybe I'll try the batch file with wait option.

 

[CathodeRay]

Spoke too soon. After rebooting the HTPC this evening, MP is FUBAR. Useless. Probably time to get a grown up software PVR, one that works.

 

[mm1352000]

<sigh>
Why do people always try the worst ideas while I'm asleep and can't warn them.

Spoke too soon. After rebooting the HTPC this evening, MP is FUBAR. Useless. Probably time to get a grown up software PVR, one that works.

Surprise surprise. What do you expect when you mess with the database like that?

Can't help without log files. That is, if you actually want to be helped.

 

[CathodeRay]

Of course I want to be helped, the whole point of coming to this forum is to ask for help. The problem is whether the help is forthcoming. Not the will to help - that is beyond doubt, you are all very generous, but whether the help itself is possible.

I've always had the sense that MediaPortal is too big a beast, slightly out of control. I'm not sure any one person has their head round the whole thing. The whole server client architecture adds to the complexity. Choosing a complicated bloated database back end for TV adds yet more complexity. MySQL is famously inpenetrable - their refman pages contain all the information ever known to man about MySQL except that which you want to know (eg how to increase logging verbosity - hours of intelligent googling and I still can't find it). Current versions os MS SQLEx weigh in at close to or over 1GB. 1GB??? For Heaven's sake, all we need to do is keep a record of some channels, EPG data, recordings and a handful of other settings. It's a bit like using a Saturn V rocket to go shopping at your local store.

So far as I know I didn't do anything that would explicitly mess with the database. I installed a parallel version of MS's SQL, and attempted to connect to it, it didn't work (why am I not surprised?), so I backed off. I didn't save the connection, just tested it. Or maybe this is one of the infamous cases of MP TV not being clear (I'm thinking of things like cleaning up recordings, where the warnings are really rather misleading).

I mentioned ShowShifter earlier as an example of what works. SSF and MP in their own way also highlight the fundamental problem in this (software PVR/media centre) area: for some bizarre reason it work commercially, ie you don't get competent affordable third party SW (which is what SSF was until it disappeared and development stopped) which sticks around. It's either wobbly branded bundled stuff (WinTV, Pinnacle etc), some less than perfect cranky third party solutions or the big open source ones like MP and NPVR, which, to put it shortly, are always running a few fries short of a happy meal. I for one can (and have over the years) accept being a few fries short, but when the whole meal disappears, as it did last night, then I get disgruntled. I start asking how many days is it reasonable to spend trying to fix something that shouldn't need fixing.

This General Support (for MP1) section of the forum has almost 500 threads. This suggests two thing to me; firstly that MP generates a lot of problems, and secondly there is an active community asking for help and providing help. Often problems are solved swiftly, which is great, but there are some older longer running sores that, I fear, are probably, beyond help. I've had a number of generously offered suggestions in this thread, but none of them work, indeed the fact there are so many suggestions itself suggests none of them work, because if the solution was known it would appear rapidly and the problem be solved.

The bottom line is for me the MP database architecture doesn't work, in the sense that it is unstable. I'm not the only one who has found this: witness all the other threads about database corruption, connection problems etc. The wiki, as I have noted before, is less than perfect, often incomplete, and sometimes just plain wrong (eg the way to get the database connection dialog is setuptv.exe --configure-db when its /configure-db. OK I would probably have worked it out, this being a Windows setup, but why keep wrong information out there? It's back to MP being a too big beast slightly out of control.

At the moment, after over three days of trying to sort this out, and ending up with an installation that really is FUBAR, I really can't face that rigmarole of getting log files, zipping them and all that - if they are there anyway, as I say, MP is currently FUBAR, and getting more info in the MySQL logs appears to be impossible, and then transferring them to another computer so that I can post them here. I sort of feel I've been there, done that, and got the tee shirt, only the tee shirt turned out to have lots of holes in it and then fell apart.

I use image based backups and yes I do have an image of the relevant partition from the relevant time ie about a week ago ie after the new tuner card was installed so I can restore that image and get back to quite literally where I was a week ago. But we're no closer to solving the root problem, which is why MySQL is playing up. I fully accept it might not strictly speaking be a MP problem, though I would also say that in a way it is, because MP chooses to use a dysfunctional bloatware database system. After the last week, I'm not persuaded anybody actually knows the cause of the problem, or how to fix it. One possibility was to use another bloated database system, but that blew up in my face. The MySQL logs are useless, and there doesn't appear to be any way to improve (why am I not surprised?) their usefulness. I'm at, I think quite reasonably, the 'life's too short' point. I've tried to fix it, it hasn't worked, and so its time to move on. Here in the UK it's summer, and the weather forecast is good, time to enjoy the summer, not be stuck in a darkened room trying to fix software that on the face of it can't be fixed.

None of what I have said diminishes my appreciation for the help that I have been offered, for which I am genuinely grateful.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

CathodeRay,

You are making your life more diificult than it needs to be

For Heaven's sake, all we need to do is keep a record of some channels, EPG data, recordings and a handful of other settings. It's a bit like using a Saturn V rocket to go shopping at your local store.

There is not much point in complaining about an architecture, which has grown over 10 years. It is what it is and thousands of MediaPortal users have no problems running it. The architecture of MP2 is fresh, leaner and faster.

So far as I know I didn't do anything that would explicitly mess with the database. I installed a parallel version of MS's SQL, and attempted to connect to it, it didn't work (why am I not surprised?), so I backed off.

Just tying to connect to it is not enough since there is no SQL Express database. I am not sure at what point of the setup process this connecting step would start. For that reason I suggested to remove everything (i.e. renam directories) and start from scratcj to have aclean MS SQLExpress process.

Or maybe this is one of the infamous cases of MP TV not being clear (I'm thinking of things like cleaning up recordings, where the warnings are really rather misleading).

You have left the standard setup procedures light years behind you. Don't expect any manual to capture such situations. With respect to misleading descriptions, we would actually welcome anybody to helöp improving descriptions. The Wiski is open to everybody. In any case you can always take the existing text and post new improved wording.

This General Support (for MP1) section of the forum has almost 500 threads. This suggests two thing to me; firstly that MP generates a lot of problems, and secondly there is an active community asking for help and providing help. Often problems are solved swiftly, which is great, but there are some older longer running sores that, I fear, are probably, beyond help.

I don't see your point. Applying the same line of argument would mean that for example MS Windows is totally crappy software because there are so much help threads in the various forums.

Also please keep in mind that many of the old MP threads might either have been resolved - but the OP didn't bother to reply and/or mark the thread as "solved" - or is obsolete because of it relating to older MP versions.

I've had a number of generously offered suggestions in this thread, but none of them work, indeed the fact there are so many suggestions itself suggests none of them work, because if the solution was known it would appear rapidly and the problem be solved.

With all respect - but you remind of the stories where the copy machine support engineer is called for help, only to find that people had already messed up with the machine and severely worsened what had otherwise been an easy to solve issue.

If I were you, I would

• Uninstall everything that relates to MediaPortal and MySQL
• Delete all directories and files in the program directories
• Clean up the registry
• Install SQLExpress
• Reinstall MediaPortal

I am the prime example of a heavy user with TV being the prime application who NEVER had any database problems with SQLExpress.