UK Users: Freeview+ type features (1 Viewer)

[noncom]

Hi

A question for UK users familiar with the set of features associated with Sky+ or Freeview+.......

I'm currently using a Topfield 5800 (probably the best SD Freeview PVR in existence, with the addition of many software enhancements known as TAPs), but for various reasons (including the possibility of Freeview HD and networking capability) I'm looking at a replacement device. It's going to be either another "off the shelf" PVR such as the Humax Fox HDR T2, or a HTPC with Media Portal.

So, I can see all the advantages I get with Media Portal, in terms of being a fully flexible all-in-one network media solution. But what I want to make sure is that it's not going to be a significant step back in terms of PVR functionality from the Topfield.

So, in the UK, Freeview+ offers:

Series Link facilities based on the CRID (Series and Episode ID codes transmitted with the programmes), and
Accurate Recording flags so that recordings start when the broadcaster signals the start of a programme and end when the flag changes to another programme. Thus if the schedule is running late or early, or a sports match overruns, the recording should still not miss any of it.

My understanding of Media Portal is that it does not recognise these data flags, and therefore cannot provide these functions. Add-ons like For The Record duplicate some of the clever Text-Search functions of the Topfield, but in terms of recording only one instance of a given episode instead of lots of repeats, it seems to rely on Episode Names/Descriptions for duplication avoidance. Also, there seems to be no mechanism (other than fixed padding) to cope with changing broadcast schedules.

So, how reliable is Media Portal / FTR in these regards -
recording each episode of a series only once, even if it's on multiple times on different channels,
and never missing the start or end of an episode even if the schedule changes or it over-runs.

Thanks for any advice or opinions.
noncom

 

[jameson_uk]

Schedules have pre and post record periods (so x mins is added before and y afyer) which is unfortunately as far as the changing schedule is dealt with. There is also the ability to record x every Wednesday (regardless of time)

The multiple recordings can be based on series / episode number so it not as rough as just trying to match episode names (that said you need a different source of epg info as the ota freeview epg does not contain this info).

There is some development work going on about series link (search for custom grabber) but that has done sky and freesat but not freeview yet.

The one big advantage is when new series start. My misses has a few things like the apprentice every weds on bbc one hd and say waterloo road the same. When new series start they automatically get picked up without needing to set a series link recording (always used to miss the first episode on sky). When waterloo road move from 20:00 to 19:30 this was picked up without user input.

Both approaches have their pros and cons but hopefully if the series link stuff comes off then you should be able to choose either way

 

[noncom]

Thanks Jameson_UK

Simple pre- and post- padding is obviously a bit of a step back from what I have now, as it couldn't cope with very late running schedules, or football matches going into extra time etc. In fact, with customised software on the Topfield, I have the best of both worlds..... The recording starts with a couple of minutes pre-padding, then when the Start of Programme flag is transmitted, a Bookmark is created which the system uses to start playback at the right place. If the programme finishes (according to the flag) at the right time, the recording will stop at the end of the post-padding; if not, it will automatically Extend until the flag changes.

The Episode number system using another EPG source sounds a little more sophisticated than I thought.... although my suspicion would be that it would worsen the problem of changing schedules, as the OTA EPG is more likely to update for a change of schedule on the day than a Web-based EPG source. But I could be wrong.

And as for Series Link, yes, I understand your point about returning series.... however, once again the Topfield/TAP system has this cracked..... It performs Text-based searches for Programme titles or descriptions, then when it finds a match, it uses the Series Link ID to set the timers. So, if I set it to search for Doctor Who (say), it will find a new series of Doctor Who as soon as it appears in the EPG, and automatically create a Series Link (with intelligent clash resolution) for it.

It would be great if MP could incorporate some similar features in future.

But, to be honest, the Toppy/TAP combo seems way ahead of the game there. If I went for another off-the-shelf PVR, that would merely have standard Series Link functions, so would suffer from the problem you describe. The Humax can be made to perform Text Searches, and email you when it finds a match, so you are warned about the new series appearing and can set the timer, so that's pretty close I guess.

It seems like whatever I go for in order to gain the advantages of the HD/Network integration is going to involve a step back in some senses. I just need to minimise them, or it's not worth spending the money.

 

[Culbin]

Thanks for starting this thread noncom. I've just started investigating MP as an alternative to my Toppy and I could not have found someone with a more similar take on things

I've got a Topfield 5800 and a 5810 and have used the MyStuff TAP for many years. I agree that with it's PowerSearch function it appears to be years ahead of the game. I'm totally gutted that Topfield have abandoned the UK and it's a struggle to buy one anymore. For this reason I decided to find an alternative to take me into the future before my Toppy's bite the dust.

Being an advocate of open source (and failing miserably with MythTV on Ubuntu) I came across MP and on the surface it looks very slick. It also has the all-important Community to keep it alive.
After I got everything set up the first thing I did was see how easy it was to record something, and I got a bit of a shock when the intelligent series linking I'd taken for granted with MyStuff was missing. I feel it either selects too much or too little and I would not be confident without checking everything constantly.

I'm going to check out For The Record and also TVWishList looks useful. If I find any solutions I'll post them here.

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

Can I just add something here and it does relate to freeview only for my point, but applies to most dvb, as a FTR user cannot remember the last time i missed a recording, except for a power blackout, which would affect any type of pvr equipment, the good news is, episode was recorded 3 days later as a repeat.

This has happened many a time in series I collect, that there have been conflicts on recordings and suddenly 2 months later episode turns up in my recordings screen.

Know very little about the Topfield, but take it that its similar to the Humax, ie it cannot record ALL programs on the same mux\transponder at the same time, which MP can.

HTH's

 

[porky996t]

Just add a little more to the Series Link discussed previously - I use a variation on MP developed by forum user Miroslav. If you have a Satellite tuner card installed you can use this to access the Sky EPG data and Miroslav's MP variation then adds 'series link' to the recording options available. It obviously uses the Sky data for assessing episodes etc and I find it very useful.

For further reading, the thread re this can be found >>here<<


HTH,



M.

 

[noncom]

porky996t, that sounds very useful, but why could MP not read the CRID data from the Freeview transmission directly and use that for Series Linking?

Paranoid Delusion, thanks, and yes in that respect (2 progs at once limit) the Topfield is similar to the Humax, although in many other respects, far in advance of it!

Accurate Recording is the other Nice-To-Have feature..... the ability to press Play on a recording and 99% of the time have it start bang on the beginning of a programme (and the option to rewind if it happens to be a few seconds late), and to Extend the recording in the event of an over-run or schedule change.

Without reading the Freeview stream flags this seems unlikely to be possible.

noncom

 

[porky996t]

Hi noncom,

....but why could MP not read the CRID data from the Freeview transmission directly and use that for Series Linking?

I really don't know the answer - I can tell you about buildings, but not software development (unfortunately) .

I suspect that this particular Freeview dataset is only applicable to UK users, and as such would require UK devs who understand how the Freeview data is processed to enable this to work. How this would fit in with the rest of the 'international' stuff and other recognised standards that MP uses I couldn't comment.



M.

 

[mkjustuk]

noncom - google 4 the record as a plugin to Mediaportal, it's Mystuff and more!!

 

[noncom]

Hi mkjustuk

I'm aware of For The Record - in fact I referred to it specifically in my post to start this thread.

I know it can replicate the text searching facilities of MyStuff (and possibly extend them in some ways).

What it CAN'T do AFAIK is: a) cope with late notice changes to schedules or unschedule overruns, b) use the Accurate Recording flags to save me FFing through a few minutes padding at the beginning of a recording, c) use the Series Link data to record one and only one instance of each series.

I believe it may replicate the last function using programme descriptions for repeat avoidance, but how successful this is I have no idea.

I was just wondering whether there's any prospect of a plug-in for MP ever using the CRID data and AR flags embedded in the Freeview stream to achieve these functions, since the first two at least seem impossible without them.

Cheers
noncom