1.3.0 Final and Digital Channel Scans (1 Viewer)

[breese]

Encoded = encrypted (my bad). WinTV sees them durring a scan and Unchecks them as a default (not in channel lineup).
Not a single channel in MP has a RED Bubble... Matter of fact I do not recall seeing any reference to Encrypted channels in any logs

As for the watch dog... You want it on the Server or the Client?
As for the TV Side logs you seem to be requesting are the Client Logs I just posted..
All those errors are from the Client requesting the server to start the channel's

I can only say: if you take the name "Unknown 559250-27A" from the MP client and search for it in the TV Channels section of TV Server configuration (our channel database) then you will find it.

Explain to me how searching the database for this Unknown XXXXXX-YYY helps me? The same thing appears in the Scan Results on the server, the Channel List on the server, and the Client Channel Page....

Do me a favor... Forget any remotes.... This has nothing to do with them.

The results from the server (want to talk about confused... omg) that are meeningless (Unknown XXXXXX-YYY and yyy being in Hex... go figure... and I am a tech....) are showing up exactly the same in the list of channels on the client.
I personally think this is real simple to understand... It is the KISS factor... Keep It Simple Stupid (not refering to anyone here... it is a comment) along with What You See Is What You Get

Now as a user switching from OTA (btw: Worked great at getting Channel ID Information) and switching over to Cable QAM where the only thin human readable is Unknown....

My very first post as a lot of info and logs... Up until the Client Logs I had just posted, continue to give the same results.

If you do no understand the problem or the way I am putting it to you then try this.
What do you expect the End User to see on the Client when they pull up the Channel Listings?
I really hope you are not going to tell me Unknown XXXX-YYYY

I will do whatever asked of me to try and help fix the issue. I understand a lot of the developers here are no US based but I am willing to help support the product any way I can... With the Digital conversion here in the US, one would hope that products like MP would welcome issues like this and users willing to help

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again

Is there any way that we can chat more directly? Skype or IRC or something? I feel these long posts are not proving very helpful to either of us.

Not a single channel in MP has a RED Bubble... Matter of fact I do not recall seeing any reference to Encrypted channels in any logs

Yeah, from your log files it looks like MP thinks all your channels are in-the-clear. This might be one case where you need to take my word for it.

As for the watch dog... You want it on the Server or the Client?

What I'm asking for is full simultaneous logs from MediaPortal and TV Server showing what happens when you tune a channel successfully and when you attempt to tune a channel that fails. In essence, I'm trying to trace what happens from the moment you select the channel to determine for sure where the problems are (and hopefully show you that they're not related to tuning).

As for the TV Side logs you seem to be requesting are the Client Logs I just posted..

To be honest, the logs that you posted don't tell me a whole lot except that there is "something" wrong. They contain very little useful information for me. This is why I suggested testing in the TV Server configuration "manual control" section (and then providing the tv.log file).

All those errors are from the Client requesting the server to start the channel's

Yep, I understand that. The problem is that I don't see where you actually select a channel... so essentially the information is incomplete.

What I would really like is the MediaPortal.log, MediaPortal error.log, TsReader xxx.log, tv.log, TV Server error.log and TsWriter xxx.log. The watch dog is a tool that we have provided that gathers all of those log files plus your system info and sticks them in a convenient zip file which you can quickly and easily attach. It should be much easier than grabbing all those files individually.

Note: when I say "client" I'm referring to the frontend MediaPortal application, and when I say "server" I'm referring to the backend TV Server service. In many cases MediaPortal is installed on the same PC as TV Server, but they are still distinct components.

I can only say: if you take the name "Unknown 559250-27A" from the MP client and search for it in the TV Channels section of TV Server configuration (our channel database) then you will find it.

Explain to me how searching the database for this Unknown XXXXXX-YYY helps me? The same thing appears in the Scan Results on the server, the Channel List on the server, and the Client Channel Page....

I distinctly sense you are frustrated, and I'm truly sorry. I'm trying to help, but clearly I didn't (and still don't) understand what you're trying to do.
What you said is:

At least with WinTV the Unknown 80.399 can be located in the WOW channel database…

I don't understand what this "WOW channel database" is.
Please could you be so kind as to explain that for a start.

Do me a favor... Forget any remotes.... This has nothing to do with them.

Sure, will do.

The results from the server (want to talk about confused... omg) that are meeningless (Unknown XXXXXX-YYY and yyy being in Hex... go figure... and I am a tech....) are showing up exactly the same in the list of channels on the client.

Let me try a different approach here: what would be more meaningful to you given the limited channel information available?
We would love to give you the proper name (eg. HBO) and number (eg. 123) but that simply isn't accessible with a clear QAM tuner.

Now as a user switching from OTA (btw: Worked great at getting Channel ID Information) and switching over to Cable QAM where the only thin human readable is Unknown....

I can see hello_joe tried to explain this to you earlier in the thread. Let me put his answer in different words:

The FCC requires full channel info to be provided OTA, but does not regulate for cable QAM. With the exception of clear QAM local channels, cable providers use proprietary out-of-band frequencies and delivery mechanisms to provide the info for their set-top-boxes. PC clear QAM tuners are physically not capable of receiving anything but the most basic channel information for local clear QAM channels. What you see in MediaPortal and WinTV is what is available.

My very first post as a lot of info and logs... Up until the Client Logs I had just posted, continue to give the same results.

I've looked at these.
You've clearly put in a lot of effort, and words can't express how much I admire your patience and persistence.

If you do no understand the problem or the way I am putting it to you then try this.

What do you expect the End User to see on the Client when they pull up the Channel Listings?

I really hope you are not going to tell me Unknown XXXX-YYYY

I'm really sorry, but that is the answer I'm going to give you.

To expand just a little: we expect that 90+% of the time TV Server will find channels as "Unknown". You will need to find out what the real names are by using the "preview" function or somehow matching with the lineup from your cable provider... then manually rename.

Please trust me when I say that is the last the answer that I want to give.
I have spent literally weeks researching this problem for myself!
Using stream analysers... different cable providers... different tuners... different software... reading on the internet... reading technical standards. WEEKS.
I have come to the conclusion that there is simply no 100% foolproof works-for-all-providers way of getting channel names and numbers for all channels with PC clear QAM tuners. Heck, even if we could do it for only Comcast or only Time Warner... we would have done it years ago.

So again: the info that you see in WinTV and MediaPortal... that is all that is available from the tuner.
If you think we can present that info better or you know how to get full channel info from the tuner then truly I'm all ears.
We are open to make changes.

I will do whatever asked of me to try and help fix the issue. I understand a lot of the developers here are no US based but I am willing to help support the product any way I can... With the Digital conversion here in the US, one would hope that products like MP would welcome issues like this and users willing to help

Again, I really appreciate your patience and the time you must have put in.
To reiterate what I just said above, if the problem is that TV Server doesn't automatically find your channel names then my understanding is that there is no solution for PC except using a CableCARD tuner.

mm

 

[breese]

If you would like to recommend a method of chat.. I will try anything.
I think my frustration is that MP scan info is not giving me anything usefull and does not function if it is labeled Unknown.
Thats the funny part.. Those with correct names work (go figure).
I trully cannot see how anyone can expect a user to go thru the logs to find the xx.yy channel info AND from one of the prior posts, the channel number appears to be off by 1....

WOW database... Wow cable has an on-line site that will list all the channels available and tell you the XX.YY channel number...
http://www.wowway.com/help-support/cable-tv/channel-lineups
Put in the area code, and then click on the Built In Digital Tuner (QAM)
It will list all the channel Names and Numbers....
I am and have not asked for a 100%.. (while it would be nice.. I understand its not going to happen!)

I am at work... While I do have access to the server at home, I have not setup the firewall for access to the client.
If I clear the logs and start a new scan and packup the logs, is there anything else you want?
Name it, it's yours...

 

[mm1352000]

If you would like to recommend a method of chat.. I will try anything.
...
I am at work...

It is past 2:30 am here and I have to be up again at 5:30am... so I need to go to bed!
Probably TeamViewer is the easiest thing to use. No need to configure firewalls or open ports.
But could we call a raincheck until the weekend?
Maybe 7pm CDT on Saturday? (That is 12 noon for me.)
I'll private message to confirm...

I think my frustration is that MP scan info is not giving me anything usefull and does not function if it is labeled Unknown.

Thats the funny part.. Those with correct names work (go figure).

I trully cannot see how anyone can expect a user to go thru the logs to find the xx.yy channel info AND from one of the prior posts, the channel number appears to be off by 1....

Hear you loud and clear.
Most people use preview rather than examining numbers in lineups and logs, but obviously if preview isn't working... well that is no good!

WOW database... Wow cable has an on-line site that will list all the channels available and tell you the XX.YY channel number...

http://www.wowway.com/help-support/cable-tv/channel-lineups

Put in the area code, and then click on the Built In Digital Tuner (QAM)

It will list all the channel Names and Numbers....

Ahhhh, okay. Now I'm with you!
So you're looking at the "QAM Channel" and "QAM HD Channel" columns and trying to find equivalent numbers in MP, right?
And so, if you live in Chicago you're saying [for example] 62.197 should be "Antenna TV (WGN)"?

Well, I've never heard of a "QAM Channel" but that is not impossible. If QAM Channel = [phys]-[sid] then changing the bit after the "Unknown" in TV Server is easy for us.

I am and have not asked for a 100%.. (while it would be nice.. I understand its not going to happen!)

Understood.

I am at work... While I do have access to the server at home, I have not setup the firewall for access to the client.

If I clear the logs and start a new scan and packup the logs, is there anything else you want?

Name it, it's yours...

As above, lets give it a break until the weekend. I don't want to get you in trouble at work and I need to sleep. I also have commitments to keep with the CableCARD support, so my time is a little limited. But I'll be in contact...

mm

 

[breese]

Seeing the server TV scan was complete, I did not do a fresh scan.
I did start the watchdog on the client.. Ran a few channels thru (dont ask me if they actually were encripted, nothing tells me they are or are not).
Gathered up the logs and here they are...
fyi: I am willing to create an MP User account and open the firewall to the client if it would help.

So you're looking at the "QAM Channel" and "QAM HD Channel" columns and trying to find equivalent numbers in MP, right? And so, if you live in Chicago you're saying [for example] 62.197 should be "Antenna TV (WGN)"?

Just as reference, I am not trying to do Over The Air... Matter of fact, MP has worked great when I was doing that.
WOW cable made the decision to use the Clear QAM information on non-scrambled channels available across the cable line. While there are improvements that need to be done, it seems to work for some.
Also, I sent an email requesting developer information on what they are actually sending across the cable to identify Clear QAM.. no response yet but then again I just sent the request.

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks for those logs - they're much more helpful to me.

In these logs I'm not seeing any crazy errors like in the previous logs you posted.

What I do see is:

2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 SendPMT: Channel FTA information changed to False according to CAIDs in PMT.
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 SendPMT version:1 len:68 635
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 cam flags:True
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 SetMpegPidMapping
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 pid:81 pcr
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 pid:80 pmt
2013-04-24 18:40:06.396902 [(11)]: subch:0 pid:81 video type:MPEG-2
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: subch:0 map pid:81 video type:MPEG-2
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: subch:0 pid:82 audio lang:eng type:AC3
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: subch:0 map pid:82 audio lang:eng type:AC3
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: OnPMTReceived: MDAPI disabled. Possible reasons are _mdplugs=null or provider not listed
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: subch:0 stop tif
2013-04-24 18:40:06.412527 [(11)]: WaitForPmt: PMT handling took 0.03125 seconds.
2013-04-24 18:40:06.428152 [(11)]: card: Tuner locked: True
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: **************************************************
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: ***** SIGNAL LEVEL: 0, SIGNAL QUALITY: 100 *****
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: **************************************************
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: card: tuned user: sylvester subchannel: 0
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: user:sylvester add
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: card2:sylvester 5 0
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: Controller: epg stop
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: card: StartTimeShifting 5 R:\MediaPortal\live5-0.ts
2013-04-24 18:40:06.443777 [(11)]: card: CAM enabled : True
2013-04-24 18:40:06.459402 [(11)]: card: WaitForFile - waiting _eventAudio & _eventVideo
2013-04-24 18:40:21.459402 [(11)]: card: WaitForFile - no audio was found after 15 seconds
2013-04-24 18:40:21.459402 [(11)]: card: WaitForFile - audio and video stream is scrambled

So when you attempt to start the second channel, TV Server is dynamically detecting that the channel is encrypted. You should see a message in MediaPortal telling you that (though I can't see the exact message being shown):

2013-04-24 18:44:18.950500 [Debug][MPMain(1)]: WindowManager: route TvPlugin.TVHome:1->MediaPortal.Dialogs.GUIDialogNotify:2016
2013-04-24 18:44:18.951476 [Debug][MPMain(1)]: DialogWindow: MediaPortal.Dialogs.GUIDialogNotify init
2013-04-24 18:44:21.831359 [Debug][MPMain(1)]: WindowManager: unroute to MediaPortal.Dialogs.GUIDialogNotify:2016->TvPlugin.TVHome:1

So short, sweet summary: I think the first channel is working great, and the second channel is only not working because it is encrypted.

mm

 

[Pat Clark]

Sorry to butt in, mm, but there seems to be a discrepancy between what the poster said and what you and Joe said that might be indicative of a bug.

The channels . . . with red dots are the ones that MP thinks are encrypted.

Not a single channel in MP has a RED Bubble...

the second channel is only not working because it is encrypted.

I struggled with all this a year ago, and now have a satisfactory lineup, but I'm suspicious that I'm not receiving some channels I should get.

 

[breese]

Hay Pat... (and others), input from anyone as confused as I am about any of these issues is welcome as far as i am concerned.

Mm, so you know, I am doing more research into all these issues and hope to have a detailed list tonight or tomorrow… thanks

 

[Vasilich]

@Pat Clark
as mm described above - if channel provider marks channels as encrypted - then those channels will get red bubbles, as the decision will be made while scanning.
But if provider encrypt channels without marking them properly while transmitting - then MP recognizes this only after tuning and trying to get streams from it. And this seems to be the case for breese. So - discrepancy comes from provider not following standards, not from MP.
@mm1352000 correct me if i'm wrong, please.

 

[breese]

If I could find a log from WinTV.... Their software not only detected the encrypted channels, they made sure to Not Mark them for input into the final Channels list... If you want them added, you have to mark them.
So I know the Hauppauge software does see it.