1.3.0 Final and Digital Channel Scans (5 Viewers)

[mm1352000]

Same card... Swapped from Digital Cable to OTA Digital Antenna
...
Here are my OTA channels and yes... there are encrypted ones

One more thing... Everything that has a Name Attacted to it is Without EPG, or any plugins...

Even turned off Schedule Direct... So the QAM info is raw info

I'm sorry - it is just not realistic to expect the same scan outcomes (ie. names found, maj and minor channel found) for OTA and cable.
I've explained the differences between regulations for OTA and cable/QAM above. Please read carefully!

One thing I did just notice... With OTA the Signal Level actually works where when using Digital Cable it never shows anything... Both Cable and OTA do register Signal Quality....

This is another can of worms that I can go into if you really want... but basically there is no standard scale for min and max strength/quality readings. MP uses 0..100, which is the convention used by many tuner drivers. If your tuner produces dB readings [which are often negative] then the value may appear to be zero. There is very little we can do about this, and it is not affecting the scan outcomes - purely a visual thing.

SUMMARY: WE WILL NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS

 

[mm1352000]

Just to be double-triple explicitly clear...

OTA ATSC and QAM cable have different standards.

OTA is not QAM.
QAM is not OTA.

Comparing them is not fair.

 

[breese]

First I would like to say Thank You to everyone that has had any input into this thread.
mm, I have spent a great deal of time reading each part of this and other threads and while I know more now than I did 3 weeks ago, the entire part of channel scanning, what does what, and what is and is not supported can be very intimidating to the normal user. I do however enjoy a new challange and learning.

A few points of intrest:
1 - I discovered the extending the scan time from the CableCard thread. They also discovered increasing the time resolved not finding some channels. I discovered the same affect for my QAM scans. By the way, I also discovered a bug that affected the standard QAM scan's when I attempted to use their test code.
2 - I just discovered another thread where there was a problem with channel numbers and SD (I do subscribe to SD). It also has a manual method of editing the channel numbers using export and import. If I read the thread corrrectly, SD might be able to update / change the LNC info for proper channel numbers. Looks like I have my work cut out for me with over 300 channels.
3 - I did the compare of OTA ATSC and Cable QAM to show we do see (including the Red Baloon) encrypted channels on OTA. It is funny that WinTV identifies them with Cable QAM but MP does not... ok.. Like I said, I have my work cut out for me.
4 - You mention that WMC payes to support EPG support. Has anyone made or thought to make a converter? of course I dont even know if it is possible, just thought I would ask.

While all of that is nothing more than my attempt to understand and let you all know I believe I have a lot of work ahead of me I would like to offer a few things.
All this started because I am currently building a new high end 64bit server. At the same time I am changing the old 32bit and testing MP. The new server will be built into my entertainment center and have direct HDMI access to my TV and be conected to my sound sound system. There will / is a client also for my basement big screen.

Would availability to my current (or new one in a few months) be of any help for testing?
If there is something you want or need tested, let me know.. I would be more than happy to do so.
I do love the MP software and would like to help.

 

[breese]

Follow-up on scannel scans.
I used a few different available QAM Freq MP tables.
In the end the QAM IRC scan was the closest to the findings of WinTV. I know the WinTV findings work in WinTV.. Watched the actual channels
Problem is, MP is off by one on phys:

Example MP Scan: (WinTV scan to follow)
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: atsc:Tune:ATSC:tv: Freq:457262 ONID:-1 TSID:-1 SID:-1 PMT:0xFFFFFFFF FTA:False LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:-1 min:-1 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: atsc:using new channel tuning settings
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: Setting Generic ATSC modulation to Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: GenericATSC: Set ModulationType: Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: dvbubmiting tunerequest Channel: subChannel:0
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: dvb:using existing subchannel:0
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: dvbubmit tunerequest size:1 new:0
2013-04-26 18:23:45.866601 [(15)]: subch:0 OnBeforeTune
2013-04-26 18:23:45.882226 [(15)]: dvbubmit tunerequest calling put_TuneRequest
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: dvbubmit tunerequest done calling put_TuneRequest
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: subch:0 OnAfterTune
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: RunGraph
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: dvb: LockInOnSignal ok
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: subch:0 OnGraphStart
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: subch:0 Graph already running - WaitForPMT
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: subch:0 SetupPmtGrabberid FFFFFFFF sid:FFFFFFFF
2013-04-26 18:23:46.663476 [(15)]: subch:0 SetupPmtGrabberid FFFFFFFF sid:FFFFFFFF
2013-04-26 18:23:46.710351 [(15)]: Scan: tuner locked:True signal:0 quality:100
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: 0) 0x0 0x755C 0x21 0x1140 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-33
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-21 Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:33 PMT:0x1140 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: 1) 0x0 0x755C 0x22 0x1150 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-34
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-22 Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:34 PMT:0x1150 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: 2) 0x0 0x755C 0x3E 0x1310 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-62
2013-04-26 18:24:01.725976 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-3E Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:62 PMT:0x1310 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: 3) 0x0 0x755C 0x3F 0x1320 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-63
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-3F Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:63 PMT:0x1320 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: 4) 0x0 0x755C 0x43 0x1360 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-67
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-43 Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:67 PMT:0x1360 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: 5) 0x0 0x755C 0xB9 0x1AC0 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-185
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-B9 Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:185 PMT:0x1AC0 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: 6) 0x0 0x755C 0xBA 0x1AD0 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-186
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-BA Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:186 PMT:0x1AD0 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.741601 [(15)]: 7) 0x0 0x755C 0xBB 0x1AE0 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-187
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-BB Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:187 PMT:0x1AE0 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: 8) 0x0 0x755C 0x384 0x40 type:0
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: DVBBaseScanning: service_name is null so now = Unknown 457262-900
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: atsc:Found: ATSC:tv: Unknown 457262-384 Freq:457262 ONID:0 TSID:30044 SID:900 PMT:0x40 FTA:True LCN:10000 phys:64 maj:0 min:0 mod:Mod256Qam
2013-04-26 18:24:01.757226 [(15)]: Scan Got 9 from 9 channels

WinTV results from the spreadsheet I posted
Unknown 63 33
Unknown 63 34
Unknown 63 62
Unknown 63 63
Unknown 63 67
Unknown 63 185
Unknown 63 186
Unknown 63 187
Unknown 63 900

As you can see the phys channel info is 1 digit off
I have replecated this with multiple Feq Scans...

 

[breese]

I went thru the WinTV logs and configuration and discovered how to turn on Advanced Logging.
With that I stoped the server, cleared the logs, restarted the server and told WinTV to tune to WGNDT.
After a few moments of watching the channel I grabed the logs.
Most notibly are:
log.txt - Shows the setup of tuneing
TVServer.txt - Shows how their software steps thru all the different types of cards, add-ins, drivers, etc in an effort to start up properly.
What is funny is when they finally discover the right device the log has
We've got an owner!

Just thought these clean logs from the latest WinTV 7 software might help someone.

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again

1 - I discovered the extending the scan time from the CableCard thread. They also discovered increasing the time resolved not finding some channels. I discovered the same affect for my QAM scans. By the way, I also discovered a bug that affected the standard QAM scan's when I attempted to use their test code.

I am the guy that is implementing CableCARD support.
The reason that extending the scan time is suggested there is because it literally takes that long for all the channel information in the stream to cycle through.
The bug that you found has been fixed 3 weeks ago:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...-for-mediaportal-1.112585/page-18#post-980241
"EDIT: I uploaded a new complete patch, with the bug fix that will allow non CableCARD tuners to work along side."

2 - I just discovered another thread where there was a problem with channel numbers and SD (I do subscribe to SD). It also has a manual method of editing the channel numbers using export and import. If I read the thread corrrectly, SD might be able to update / change the LNC info for proper channel numbers. Looks like I have my work cut out for me with over 300 channels.

Yes, this is an SD bug that I helped somebody to discover. But even SD cannot give you LCNs in xx-yy format.

3 - I did the compare of OTA ATSC and Cable QAM to show we do see (including the Red Baloon) encrypted channels on OTA. It is funny that WinTV identifies them with Cable QAM but MP does not... ok.. Like I said, I have my work cut out for me.

I've admitted we have an issue here. Encrypted/free detection works 90% of the time, but obviously not in your case. I do not have the time to deal with this extremely complex issue right now - sorry.

4 - You mention that WMC payes to support EPG support. Has anyone made or thought to make a converter? of course I dont even know if it is possible, just thought I would ask.

mc2xml
http://mc2xml.hosterbox.net/
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_..._TV_Setup/4_TV_Guide_Setup_(EPG)/XMLTV_mc2xml


This is EPG data only. It doesn't create or rename channels like the SD plugin can.

Would availability to my current (or new one in a few months) be of any help for testing?

If there is something you want or need tested, let me know.. I would be more than happy to do so.

I do love the MP software and would like to help.

At this stage access to your system is not required, though thank you for the offer.
Let's list the issues again:

1. Signal levels not showing for cable scan.
2. Unknown channel names marked as xxxx.yyy, not understandable.
3. Encrypted channels not marked as encrypted.
4. LCNs not set.
5. xx.yy LCNs not supported.
6. Increasing SDT/VCT timeout or rescanning may find more channels.
7. Physical channel numbers off by one.

My responses:

1. Will not fix, tuner dependent.
2. Can improve, waiting on you to confirm what you want to see. If possible please point me to details about "QAM channel numbers" and how it differs from ATSC major/minor channel number.
3. Can fix, no timeframe. Bug tracker -->link<-- (older, should maybe be re-opened -->link<--).
4. Cannot fix, LCN data not available in the stream.
5. Can fix,no timeframe. Bug tracker -->link<--.
6. Waiting on you for more details, ie. logs showing a full rescan finding new channels.
7. Can fix, have identified an issue with QAM standard frequency list (first frequency should be deleted) but there doesn't appear to be any issue with the other frequency lists (they match external frequency plan links). Need your ZIP code so I can cross check against other channel databases.

So really the only things that you can assist us with are 2, 6, and 7.

mm

 

[breese]

Been working on #6
I cleared the logs and did 3 back to back scans for channels. Each one was with the QAM IRC
First scan found 357
Second found another 11
Third found 9 more
I am including the logs.
Also, I have the XML files MP seems to be using in a folder in this zip.
I can see the new XML from after I updated the WinTV software and it gave me new drivers.
How does MP come up with these?
Is it possible they are outdated?
As always thanks for the help

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again

Been working on #6

I cleared the logs and did 3 back to back scans for channels. Each one was with the QAM IRC

First scan found 357

Second found another 11

Third found 9 more

I am including the logs.

Thanks, I'll take a look when I have a chance (at work at the moment).

Also, I have the XML files MP seems to be using in a folder in this zip.

I can see the new XML from after I updated the WinTV software and it gave me new drivers.

How does MP come up with these?

Is it possible they are outdated?

First, XML files can be opened in any text editor or web browser (so you can satisfy your curiosity about what they are).
These files contain the technical definition and settings used for the analog tuners installed in your system.
Each file represents one tuner.
Most of the technical information is retrieved directly from the tuner driver. Such information (like the available inputs) does not change, so by definition it cannot be outdated.
The settings stored in the file can be seen -->here<--. The file will reflect what you select there, and vice-versa. Again, no chance of getting out of sync or outdated.
The files are created automatically by the TV Server process when it first uses a tuner.
(Obviously when you installed the new drivers TV Server picked up that something had changed and created a new file.)
In normal circumstances there is no need for you edit, open or even know about these files.
Given that they relate to analog tuners, they have absolutely zero bearing on digital scanning. Totally irrelevant for digital tuning/scanning.

mm

 

[breese]

Thanks for the XML info.
on a whim (in case it helps)
I cleared the logs and did another (4th) scan
Found 9 new in the scan... changed nothing
Hope it helps
BTW: I labeled the first set wrong... Should have been QAM scan not OTA...

One last note: WinTV only take 6 minutes to scan the entire range... way shorter than MP

 

[breese]

Can improve, waiting on you to confirm what you want to see. If possible please point me to details about "QAM channel numbers" and how it differs from ATSC major/minor channel number.

I am not real sure of the difference between QAM Channel numbers and ATSC major/minor numbers. The biggest problem is having the freq.hex format. The user has to either watch each channel or search the log files from the scan to find the possible channel number

Can fix, have identified an issue with QAM standard frequency list (first frequency should be deleted) but there doesn't appear to be any issue with the other frequency lists (they match external frequency plan links). Need your ZIP code so I can cross check against other channel databases.

My zip code = 60004
WOW Way Cable system