Best way to get strongest (ideally perfect) signal? (1 Viewer)

[DragonQ]

I recently reset my satellite's position based on MediaPortal's signal strength meter and the signal strength of all transponders that I tested within MediaPortal are now higher than before (e.g. some increased from 68 to 72, others from 70 to 74). However, it seems that my signal might actually be worse in terms of continuity errors. I recorded BBC One HD last week for an hour and towards the end of the program there were a lot of continuity errors, despite its transponder having the strongest signal of all!

Is there a more reliable way of making sure the signal is the best it can be to avoid continuity errors, other than using MediaPortal's signal strength meter (which I assume is just based on what the tuner card driver tells it)? I've tried setting TVService's priority to "realtime" and I can't see any CPU/SSD usage spikes when the continuity errors occur, so I can only think it's either a tuner/driver problem or signal problem. I was thinking of plugging my satellite cables into my Sky box to see what its signal strength meter says but I have no idea if this'll give a better or worse indication than MediaPortal.

I did a test recording just now and there were 7 continuity errors during about two hour, which all happened at the same time index (there's no other useful information in the debug logs at that time). Not bad but ideally there should be none!

 

[mm1352000]

Hi DragonQ

I recently reset my satellite's position based on MediaPortal's signal strength meter...

Not recommended.
TV Server does not update the readings fast enough to properly optimise the position of a dish. There will be a delay between when the reading is taken and when the reading is displayed... which is not ideal. Also, it won't show bursts of noise (eg. rat chewing cable, interference burst as plane flies over etc.).

...and the signal strength of all transponders that I tested within MediaPortal are now higher than before (e.g. some increased from 68 to 72, others from 70 to 74). However, it seems that my signal might actually be worse in terms of continuity errors. I recorded BBC One HD last week for an hour and towards the end of the program there were a lot of continuity errors, despite its transponder having the strongest signal of all!

You should care more about the signal quality reading than the signal strength reading.
Also, there is such a thing as signal that is too strong.

Is there a more reliable way of making sure the signal is the best it can be to avoid continuity errors, other than using MediaPortal's signal strength meter (which I assume is just based on what the tuner card driver tells it)?

Yes. Simply: get a professional in. Somebody with appropriate tools and experience will be able to do a far better job. No offence intended. It is as much about the limitations of MediaPortal's display as anything else.

I've tried setting TVService's priority to "realtime" and I can't see any CPU/SSD usage spikes when the continuity errors occur, so I can only think it's either a tuner/driver problem or signal problem. I was thinking of plugging my satellite cables into my Sky box to see what its signal strength meter says but I have no idea if this'll give a better or worse indication than MediaPortal.

Possibly better... but it depends on how often the box updates the readings, and whether it offers more than % (ie. proper BER and SNR).

I did a test recording just now and there were 7 continuity errors during about two hour, which all happened at the same time index (there's no other useful information in the debug logs at that time). Not bad but ideally there should be none!

These are more likely to be due to transient interference conditions than overall dish/LNB alignment. You need better tools to solve such problems.

mm

 

[DragonQ]

Hi DragonQ

I recently reset my satellite's position based on MediaPortal's signal strength meter...

Not recommended.
TV Server does not update the readings fast enough to properly optimise the position of a dish. There will be a delay between when the reading is taken and when the reading is displayed... which is not ideal. Also, it won't show bursts of noise (eg. rat chewing cable, interference burst as plane flies over etc.).

Hmm it seemed to update pretty quickly. It took a second or two but I was moving the dish in small segments and checking the signal each time, not just moving it and looking at the real-time readout.

...and the signal strength of all transponders that I tested within MediaPortal are now higher than before (e.g. some increased from 68 to 72, others from 70 to 74). However, it seems that my signal might actually be worse in terms of continuity errors. I recorded BBC One HD last week for an hour and towards the end of the program there were a lot of continuity errors, despite its transponder having the strongest signal of all!

You should care more about the signal quality reading than the signal strength reading.
Also, there is such a thing as signal that is too strong.

Signal quality always says 100% but that doesn't stop random continuity errors.

Is there a more reliable way of making sure the signal is the best it can be to avoid continuity errors, other than using MediaPortal's signal strength meter (which I assume is just based on what the tuner card driver tells it)?

Yes. Simply: get a professional in. Somebody with appropriate tools and experience will be able to do a far better job. No offence intended. It is as much about the limitations of MediaPortal's display as anything else.

I guess so. Was hoping to avoid that though.

I've tried setting TVService's priority to "realtime" and I can't see any CPU/SSD usage spikes when the continuity errors occur, so I can only think it's either a tuner/driver problem or signal problem. I was thinking of plugging my satellite cables into my Sky box to see what its signal strength meter says but I have no idea if this'll give a better or worse indication than MediaPortal.

Possibly better... but it depends on how often the box updates the readings, and whether it offers more than % (ie. proper BER and SNR).

I think Sky boxes only show strength and quality, the same as MediaPortal.

I did a test recording just now and there were 7 continuity errors during about two hour, which all happened at the same time index (there's no other useful information in the debug logs at that time). Not bad but ideally there should be none!

These are more likely to be due to transient interference conditions than overall dish/LNB alignment. You need better tools to solve such problems.

mm

OK so what tools would these be?

 

[mm1352000]

Hmm it seemed to update pretty quickly. It took a second or two but I was moving the dish in small segments and checking the signal each time, not just moving it and looking at the real-time readout.

Okay. I maintain it is not fast enough no matter what you do. The reading will be averaged by the driver, so you won't see transient (ie. short bursty) problems.

Did you adjust the LNB skew as well as the dish position?

Signal quality always says 100% but that doesn't stop random continuity errors.

...which means that you may have transient interference. You'll have to think about what the cause might be.
PCs are electrically noisy enough by themselves. HDD spinning up or down could be enough.
Homes are electrically noisy environments these days too. DECT phones, microwaves... etc. can be good at causing issues like this.
If you live in the country there is also electric fences to consider.
The list goes on.

I guess so. Was hoping to avoid that though.

Honestly: if you want to solve the problem without spending a lot of time yourself then this is probably the best way to do it. Yes, it costs money... but in my opinion you get what you pay for. If you do go this route, try to make sure you're there when the person turns up, and be assertive about the problem (ie. ask questions, ask to see the tools the person uses, ask for the technical information). Some people will throw up their hands if they see it is a problem with an HTPC tuner. At least that is my experience.

OK so what tools would these be?

The kinds of tools professional aerial installers use. Spectrum analysers and various meters for checking signal characteristics.

 

[bibo456]

Hello,

I used a free tool available on progdvb website, which works well : Progfinder.
http://www.progdvb.com/prog_sat_finder.html
Try it...

 

[DragonQ]

Okay. I maintain it is not fast enough no matter what you do. The reading will be averaged by the driver, so you won't see transient (ie. short bursty) problems.

Did you adjust the LNB skew as well as the dish position?

I didn't look at LNB skew, just horizontal angle. Changing the vertical angle even slightly seemed to kill the signal so I didn't bother with that.

...which means that you may have transient interference. You'll have to think about what the cause might be.
PCs are electrically noisy enough by themselves. HDD spinning up or down could be enough.
Homes are electrically noisy environments these days too. DECT phones, microwaves... etc. can be good at causing issues like this.
If you live in the country there is also electric fences to consider.
The list goes on.

Hmm. Is this a common problem then? I thought HTPC users were generally able to get perfect signals (in good weather anyway)? My server has many HDDs but they are typically spun-down unless needed. The continuity errors aren't regular enough for me to pin it down to a particular event.

Honestly: if you want to solve the problem without spending a lot of time yourself then this is probably the best way to do it. Yes, it costs money... but in my opinion you get what you pay for. If you do go this route, try to make sure you're there when the person turns up, and be assertive about the problem (ie. ask questions, ask to see the tools the person uses, ask for the technical information). Some people will throw up their hands if they see it is a problem with an HTPC tuner. At least that is my experience.

The kinds of tools professional aerial installers use. Spectrum analysers and various meters for checking signal characteristics.

Thanks for the advice. I've bought a little satellite finder gizmo and will try to get the best possible signal with that. If it doesn't work, I'll see if I can find a professional that knows how to deal with HTPC tuners.

Hello,

I used a free tool available on progdvb website, which works well : Progfinder.
http://www.progdvb.com/prog_sat_finder.html
Try it...

Nice application but presumably it derives the signal strength and quality from the driver just like MediaPortal and so wouldn't tell me anything different? I've had it tuned into 12515 H (typically the weakest for me in terms of signal strength) and the signal quality graph hasn't moved from 100%, suggesting there are no signal issues.

 

[mm1352000]

I didn't look at LNB skew, just horizontal angle. Changing the vertical angle even slightly seemed to kill the signal so I didn't bother with that.

LNB skew is the twist angle of the LNB. You need to optimise the LNB skew as well as the dish position.

Hmm. Is this a common problem then? I thought HTPC users were generally able to get perfect signals (in good weather anyway)? My server has many HDDs but they are typically spun-down unless needed. The continuity errors aren't regular enough for me to pin it down to a particular event.

No I wouldn't say it is common. Just saying that if you have transient (ie. "random") continuity errors then there are a variety of potential causes to think about. There will be an explanation; just have to find what it is.

Nice application but presumably it derives the signal strength and quality from the driver just like MediaPortal and so wouldn't tell me anything different? I've had it tuned into 12515 H (typically the weakest for me in terms of signal strength) and the signal quality graph hasn't moved from 100%, suggesting there are no signal issues.

0 - 100% is MediaPortal's range. Lots of tuner drivers use that range, but probably just as many others will report values outside that range. Another reason MP is not the best application for optimising with. If this Prog application doesn't do the same as MediaPortal then it may be marginally better.

 

[DragonQ]

According to a couple of maps I've seen I'm in the centre part of the UK where the skew needs to be set to "3", which is apparently the default. So that's probably fine but I'll have a look just in case. My satellite finder device arrived the day after dispatch so I can have a play with it later today.

Incidentally, a 1h15m recording I made last night had no continuity errors at all and I did change one thing before it started. I'm not getting my hopes up yet but we'll see if that trend continues and if so, I might have an explanation.

EDIT: I've just played around with the meter. Basically there's a wind corridor where my satellite is and I often see it moving slightly because of this. The meter indicated a bit of an inconsistent signal when blustery. I adjusted the dish ever so slightly horizontally but more importantly angled it upwards a bit and then did up the bolts tighter than they were. Now the signal is a bit stronger and doesn't drop anywhere near as much when the dish gets blown a bit. Adjusting the skew made no difference at all, strangely enough!

Signal strength has reduced slightly in MediaPortal so you were probably right about it not being the best way to judge. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I get any more continuity errors. I know that angling the dish slightly more upwards improves the signal a bit more but it was difficult for me to tighten the bolts whilst keeping it in that position, so I'll only try that again if necessary.