[confirm] Channels not flagged as FTA won't play even if they are not scrambled (1 Viewer)

[Bracco]

MediaPortal Version: 1.2.0 RC
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hi, here in Italy some (actually quite a lot) broadcasters erroneously flag their channels as scrambled (or they don't flag them as FTA, dunno) but they indeed are FTA.
With 1.2.0 RC if i try to watch a "fake" scrambled channel, i get the "No Card found" error, even if the channel is actually mapped to a card and if i go into the tvserver configuration and check the "free to air" box manually, i can then watch it no problem.

i can't test it right now but i think that 1.1.3 would let me watch them even when not flagged as FTA. The problem is that they are so many and they change so often ( daily basically... it's madness here in italy with DVB-T frequencies) that i can't afford to fix all of them manually every time i want to update the channel list...

ps: for some reason i can't attach files to the thread :/ i have logs

pps: alright, i had to use IE to attach the logs, button wasn't showing in FF6 :/

 

[mm1352000]

Hi Bracco

There are a few comments I have.
First: I notice you imported the channels directly from a previous install. I'd be interested to know what would happen if you now did a scan to update your channels, because we have improved the scrambled/FTA detection in 1.2.0rc (mantis). It may not be "perfect", but it should be better as it was tested by chemelli (who is from Italy ).

Second: if channels are changing between encrypted and FTA then we are not able to handle them correctly at the moment. We will be looking into that in a future version of MP. The way to work around this problem is to:
1. Set all your channels as FTA. They will be updated by a scan, so this is perhaps not ideal.
2. Say that your tuners have CAMs, even though they do not. This is a very practical workaround I think.

mm

 

[Bracco]

Hi Bracco

There are a few comments I have.
First: I notice you imported the channels directly from a previous install. I'd be interested to know what would happen if you now did a scan to update your channels, because we have improved the scrambled/FTA detection in 1.2.0rc (mantis). It may not be "perfect", but it should be better as it was tested by chemelli (who is from Italy ).

done that, it's just not in this logs but it's the first thing i tried

Second: if channels are changing between encrypted and FTA then we are not able to handle them correctly at the moment.

i don't think so. i think they're just broadcasting the wrong flag cause they seem scrambled even in other programs (like dvbdream, progdvb), it's just pure italian dumbassness

1. Set all your channels as FTA. They will be updated by a scan, so this is perhaps not ideal.

not the best thing to do imo :/

2. Say that your tuners have CAMs, even though they do not. This is a very practical workaround I think.

how do i do that? just by ticking the box in the tuner config?

 

[mm1352000]

done that, it's just not in this logs but it's the first thing i tried

Okay.

Second: if channels are changing between encrypted and FTA then we are not able to handle them correctly at the moment.

i don't think so. i think they're just broadcasting the wrong flag cause they seem scrambled even in other programs (like dvbdream, progdvb), it's just pure italian dumbassness

I'd sure be interested to see scan logs with comments about a few specific channels that are wrong. Perhaps even a TS dump (max 100 MB) if you can manage it.

2. Say that your tuners have CAMs, even though they do not. This is a very practical workaround I think.

how do i do that? just by ticking the box in the tuner config?

Yep

 

[Bracco]

alright, tried checking the CAM checkbox and it works but unfortunately it also causes MediaPortal to freeze for a good 30-40 seconds when you stumble upon a real encrypted channel

I'd sure be interested to see scan logs with comments about a few specific channels that are wrong. Perhaps even a TS dump (max 100 MB) if you can manage it.

here are the logs and the TS dump is uploading, filename will be italy_toscano_810000_typeT_Channel 24_FTA

some FTA channels flagged as scrambled are "Channel 24" and "TLC Telecampione", basically almost every channel in the 802Mhz and 810Mhz muxes.

some real scrambled are "Premium Cinema" and basically every channel that starts with Premium

EDIT: upload is done, i also accidentally (misclick) uploaded a small .php file, please delete that

 

[mm1352000]

alright, tried checking the CAM checkbox and it works but unfortunately it also causes MediaPortal to freeze for a good 30-40 seconds when you stumble upon a real encrypted channel

Yes, this is unavoidable I'm afraid. Of course you don't have to show scrambled channels in MP, and hopefully you don't have too many channels that are only sometimes encrypted (so easy to remember).

here are the logs and the TS dump is uploading, filename will be italy_toscano_810000_typeT_Channel 24_FTA

some FTA channels flagged as scrambled are "Channel 24" and "TLC Telecampione", basically almost every channel in the 802Mhz and 810Mhz muxes.

some real scrambled are "Premium Cinema" and basically every channel that starts with Premium

I'm looking into this now.

i also accidentally (misclick) uploaded a small .php file, please delete that

No worries - done.

 

[mm1352000]

Hmmm - this could be a very tricky problem.

Can you check whether the following channels are encrypted:
- Tivuitalia test 5
- Tele Stella
- Servizio 30
- Servizio8
- Steel - Premium
- Premium Net TV
- Premium Calcio 2, 3 etc.
- Premium Anteprima
- Servizio 7
- Premium Moto GP

some FTA channels flagged as scrambled... basically almost every channel in the 802Mhz and 810Mhz muxes.

I think you are spot on here. Those 2 muxes are very different to all the other muxes in the way they indicate whether their channels are scrambled or not. Their method seems to conflict with the other muxes, including muxes and transponders that I have here. At least I can pretty confidently say this issue is not new to MP 1.2.0rc, or even MP 1.2.x - would you agree? Unfortunately the improved encrypted/FTA detection in 1.2.0rc doesn't help (it doesn't make it worse either). I think we need an additional authoritative way to detect encryption status...

I have run out of time to look at this problem further tonight (it is 2:45am here, and I work tomorrow). I will try to take another look at the TS dump tomorrow evening.

Regards,
mm

 

[Seidelin]

alright, tried checking the CAM checkbox and it works but unfortunately it also causes MediaPortal to freeze for a good 30-40 seconds when you stumble upon a real encrypted channel

Yes, this is unavoidable I'm afraid. Of course you don't have to show scrambled channels in MP, and hopefully you don't have too many channels that are only sometimes encrypted (so easy to remember).

Couldn't this timeout be reduced a lot by reducing the timeouts in TV-Server Configuration under timeshifting? (But don't reduce them too far or you will get issues with all channels).

 

[miroslav22]

Couldn't this timeout be reduced a lot by reducing the timeouts in TV-Server Configuration under timeshifting? (But don't reduce them too far or you will get issues with all channels).

Yes i'd reduce "Wait for timeshifting file" to 5 seconds which is usually adequate. That way it will never wait longer than 5 seconds before displaying the error message.

 

[Bracco]

here it is:

- Tivuitalia test 5 -> "no audio/video found", channel not encrypted and working in dvbdream, it picks it up as an encrypted data channel
- Tele Stella -> not encrypted
- Servizio 30 -> mp shows nothing but does not complain about anything either, dvbdream can play it and it's not encrypted
- Servizio8 -> mp shows nothing but does not complain about anything either, nothing shown in dvbdream either, it picks it up as data channel
- Steel - Premium -> encrypted
- Premium Net TV -> "no audio/video found" , dvbdream picks it up as data channel
- Premium Calcio 2, 3 etc. -> "no audio/video found", dvbdream plays them and there's a still image, it picks them up as data channels but they should really be encrypted when actual soccer matches are broadcasted
- Premium Anteprima -> not encrypted
- Servizio 7 -> is a (encrypted) radio channel apparently, but broadcasts nothing.
- Premium Moto GP -> same as premium calcio 2,3 etc

I think we need an additional authoritative way to detect encryption status...

i don't think it's a mediaportal issue. it's broadcaster's fault, other softwares detect them as encrypted as well, it's more a matter of handling something that seems encrypted but isn't

alright, tried checking the CAM checkbox and it works but unfortunately it also causes MediaPortal to freeze for a good 30-40 seconds when you stumble upon a real encrypted channel

Yes, this is unavoidable I'm afraid. Of course you don't have to show scrambled channels in MP, and hopefully you don't have too many channels that are only sometimes encrypted (so easy to remember).

Couldn't this timeout be reduced a lot by reducing the timeouts in TV-Server Configuration under timeshifting? (But don't reduce them too far or you will get issues with all channels).

tried, it now takes 10-15 secs which is way better than before