[confirm] DVB-S stops working after a while - More User have that problem (1 Viewer)

[Vasilich]

ramu said: ↑
that German message meant that I tried to update the firmware of CAM module but there is no newer version available.
From what I can see the message was appearing automatically. Google translate says the message was telling you that you need to update the firmware, and to do that you have to tune to a certain transponder.

TechnoTrend: 0: Software Aktualisierung
TechnoTrend: 1:
TechnoTrend: 2: Aktuelle Version: 26.8.5.0.7
TechnoTrend: 3: Bitte schalten Sie auf den Softwarekanal und
TechnoTrend: 4: wiederholen Sie die Aktualisierung. Für Hilfe
TechnoTrend: 5: fragen Sie Ihren Anbieter oder
TechnoTrend: 6: www.technisat.com

mm is right, the CAM wants you to tune to special software update channel and get update. Have you tried to do so? (from google: SW channel is 12.604 H 22.000)

 

[ramu]

Hi,

yes, I was too short in my descirbtion. I tried to update CAM module and got that massage. After changing to the right frequenz and channel 12.604 H the CAM module tried to update and I got the message that there is no newer version aviable. So every thing is well and there is no update for CAM possible.

Thx for looking up...

@mm:

Please have a look for NDR FERNSEHEN. That EPG for that DVB-T channel has lot of holes and I do not understand why. Same for example for BAYRISCHES FS NORD on DVB-S....

There is one thing you have to know. First I updated from 1.5 to 1.6 prev and now I set up a new 1.6pre on my server BUT I choose the existig MYSQL DB because there are other programs also using this DB. So can there be a problem working 1.6 pre with older MYSQL?

ramu

 

[mm1352000]

Please have a look for NDR FERNSEHEN. That EPG for that DVB-T channel has lot of holes and I do not understand why. Same for example for BAYRISCHES FS NORD on DVB-S....

Okay - I'll take a look. Thanks.

So can there be a problem working 1.6 pre with older MYSQL?

No.

 

[mm1352000]

Same for example for BAYRISCHES FS NORD on DVB-S....

For this channel, if TV Server finds EPG it is only finding one or two entries - probably only info for the current and next programs. I think you haven't configured TV Server to grab EPG from the correct transponders/frequencies/multiplexes/channels... and/or you haven't enabled the timeshifting EPG grabber. The full EPG may only be carried on the same transponder as the channel (I don't know this... but it is possible... even common), and I don't see any attempts to grab EPG from that transponder.

Please have a look for NDR FERNSEHEN. That EPG for that DVB-T channel has lot of holes and I do not understand why.

Same as above. With this channel TV Server can tell that there are gaps in the EPG, but 41 is the most entries found:

[2013-12-18 14:45:19,056] [EPG ] [EPG Update thread] [INFO ] - IdleEpgGrabber: NDR FERNSEHEN lastUpdate:18.12.2013 13:43:42
[2013-12-18 14:45:19,066] [EPG ] [EPG Update thread] [INFO ] - IdleEpgGrabber: NDR FERNSEHEN is marked to have epg gaps. Calculating them...
[2013-12-18 14:45:19,113] [EPG ] [EPG Update thread] [INFO ] - IdleEpgGrabber: NDR FERNSEHEN Found 0 epg holes.
[2013-12-18 14:45:20,001] [EPG ] [EPG Update thread] [INFO ] - - Inserted 41 epg entries for channel NDR FERNSEHEN

Please can you post screenshots of all of the sections of TV Server DVB EPG configuration so I can see your EPG configuration and which channels are enabled.

 

[ramu]

Here are the screenshots. I didn't chance EPG menu while updating to 1.6pre??

Timeshifting is off right now. I thought while being idle MP whould grab EPG in all channels?

So there are some entries in NDR for example but with lots of holes, see attached csv export from MP db.

 

[mm1352000]

One thing I see straight away...
You have "store data only for selected channels" enabled; are you really sure that is what you want?!?

 

[ramu]

To be honest, I'm not quite sure. Normally this option was off but I'd seen tons of unnecassary grabed information in db. So I tried to enable this option because I thought that would solve the problem and reduce epg grapping time...

None the less I use only few groups of selected channels and so I think that option means to grab only that seceted channels, right?

 

[ramu]

Hello mm, hello MP Team,
I wish You a Merry XMas! Thx for your wonderful work!


In this thread we are talking about two problems:
1. DVB-S problems after a while
2. EPG grabbing topics (see above)

Unfortunately yesterday I got the same problem as described at the beginning of this thread. I started this thread because my DVB-S Technotrend card stops working after a while. That happened last night the last time.

So, I had a look to the logs and prepared to log files one with the logs working fine with TV and Radio after a fresh restart on and one which logs what happened if this task fails. MP isn’t able to read pmt, I think.

Some ideas to that problem:

• This is something I know for a long time from MP
• I found more thread to that topic, unfortunately no solution in MP forum
• Before I had a older server where this issue appears more often, every 1-2 days
• Now I see that problem in different time intervals, sometimes 5-7 days or less than 1 day, for e.g.
• After a MP Server restart everything works well, on my old server I had to kill the TV sever process because MP was not able to restart
• In my opinion this could be a memory leak issue, my new server have much more RAM
• mm wrote that he believes MP is doing everything what is possible to restart DVB-S and/or CAM module BUT perhaps there should be something more do if DVB-S is closed??? Is this something You can have a look for?
• Because after restart of MP everything works well, I think there should be a method available to reset this card. I’m no expert but I think if MP will do the same before using that card as MP does at restart everything would be fine???
• A second reason can be a that MP isn’t able to handle dynamic changed pmt, therefore I found some hints in the internet.

While searching the web, I found the German project page http://www.psimarron.net/DVBNET/index.html which have also C# code to work with DVD-S cards.

I’m no DVB expert so I asked the owner for ideas; he gave the hint to have a look into his code:


Tuning and monitoring: Line 221 is the detection of a valid datastreams via PAT counting (https://github.com/JMS-1/DVB.NET---VCR.NET/blob/master/DVB.NET/BDA4/DataGraph.cs)


The CI/CAM control via TT Budget API: Line 194 resets and reopen AQI handle (https://github.com/JMS-1/DVB.NET---VCR.NET/blob/master/DVB.NET/Provider/TechnoTrend/TTBudget/NativeCI.cs)

I hope you’ll find some hints and can combine that with MP code. As far as I know from DVB.NET they do not have problems with TT cards anymore.

So in conclusion I can imagine two reasons for that behavior:

1. Memory leak because MP do not close something in TT API
2. Dynamic chances in pmt, do not know if and how that interact with MP

I hope a complete reset of TT API will solve that problem and the example of DVB.NET will give you a hint…

Warm regards

ramu

Update1:
Perhaps here are some more hints (see patch?) : http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php
/TechnoTrend_TT-budget_S2-3200

Update2:
Was there a solotion at /forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/ci-error-setprogram-failed.96371/#post-745810

Update3:
There is a new TT-viewer version aviable, so I installed tt-view. After MP with DVB-S (all channels) hangs I opened TT view (no client but tv server still running) and was able to see uncrypted channels. For crypted channels there was no picture! But after closing TT viewer MP was able to show uncrypted channels (but no cyripted) !!! So there MUST BE a kind of reset coming from TT Viewer and it seams that MP had not closes al handles to DVB-S (CAM?)...

Update4:
There is a spezial channel TEST R which tests the dynamic change of channles, it is working well with my MP installation, so the idea further up that MP can not handle that should be wrong...

 

[mm1352000]

Hello ramu

I wish You a Merry XMas! Thx for your wonderful work!

And you also!

Unfortunately yesterday I got the same problem as described at the beginning of this thread. I started this thread because my DVB-S Technotrend card stops working after a while. That happened last night the last time.

Okay.

So, I had a look to the logs and prepared to log files one with the logs working fine with TV and Radio after a fresh restart on and one which logs what happened if this task fails. MP isn’t able to read pmt, I think.

I've tried to explain several times as best as I can: the "no PMT" is a symptom. The problem is that the CAM/CI is blocking the stream from the tuner.
Please read my post here again:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...e-user-have-that-problem.123171/#post-1045892

In one sentence: when this problem happens, MP is not receiving any stream - no video, audio, subtitles, PAT, PMT, EPG... NOTHING - from the tuner.

Your log files here are of no use. Of course we can see the typical "no PMT found"... but if you had included the full log files we would again see that the CAM/CI gave some kind of error message which is the real cause of the problem.

I found more thread to that topic, unfortunately no solution in MP forum

You will see many many threads on our forum "I see the no PMT found message, what does it mean? how can I solve it?".
Same symptom; different problem... (unless they are also using a TechnoTrend tuner with a CI/CAM).

Before I had a older server where this issue appears more often, every 1-2 days
Now I see that problem in different time intervals, sometimes 5-7 days or less than 1 day, for e.g.
After a MP Server restart everything works well, on my old server I had to kill the TV sever process because MP was not able to restart

I think the reason why the situation has improved is related to this:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/tswriter-deadlock-potential-fix.114898/

In my opinion this could be a memory leak issue, my new server have much more RAM

I'm 99% sure this problem is not related to memory or memory leaks. It is easy to check. Simply open task manager and see how much memory the TVService.exe process is using.

Because after restart of MP everything works well, I think there should be a method available to reset this card. I’m no expert but I think if MP will do the same before using that card as MP does at restart everything would be fine???

Sure, resetting the CAM/CI might be a workaround for the problem. The solution would be to replace your CAM or for TT to fix their drivers.
If you want the workaround, the question is when to do the reset?
If you reset before each tune request then it will make changing channels really slow.
You can do a reset when the tuner is stopped already by enabling the "always reset graph after stop" debug option:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/@api/deki/files/2069/=Capture.JPG

Better would be to only do it when actually necessary... which I already tried to do in TVE 3.5.

A second reason can be a that MP isn’t able to handle dynamic changed pmt, therefore I found some hints in the internet.

MP supports dynamic PMT changes:
https://github.com/MediaPortal/Medi...lementations/DVB/Graphs/TvDvbChannel.cs#L1374

...but this is not relevant to the problem. The problem has nothing to do with PAT or PMT.

The CI/CAM control via TT Budget API: Line 194 resets and reopen AQI handle (https://github.com/JMS-1/DVB.NET---VCR.NET/blob/master/DVB.NET/Provider/TechnoTrend/TTBudget/NativeCI.cs)

I hope you’ll find some hints and can combine that with MP code. As far as I know from DVB.NET they do not have problems with TT cards anymore.

Thanks for the link... but I don't think it is fair to compare with MP.
Why?
That code only supports decrypting one channel at any time (bdaapiCIReadPSIFastWithPMT); MP supports multiple (bdaapiCIMultiDecode).
That code doesn't support viewing the CAM menu; MP does.
https://github.com/MediaPortal/Medi...nditionalAccess/TechnoTrend/TechnoTrendAPI.cs

1. Memory leak because MP do not close something in TT API

You can check our code and compare it with any other code that you like.
https://github.com/MediaPortal/Medi...nditionalAccess/TechnoTrend/TechnoTrendAPI.cs

As above: if it were a "memory leak" then simply look at task manager and it will tell you if there is a memory leak.
MP opens the API when the tuner is used for the first time:
https://github.com/MediaPortal/Medi...onalAccess/TechnoTrend/TechnoTrendAPI.cs#L687
...then closes it when the service is stopped.
https://github.com/MediaPortal/Medi...nalAccess/TechnoTrend/TechnoTrendAPI.cs#L1420

This is normal use of the API. If the API needs to be closed and re-opened, that indicates there are bugs in the TT driver/API CI/CAM handling.

2. Dynamic chances in pmt, do not know if and how that interact with MP

MP supports dynamic PMT detection and changes... but again, this is not relevant.

Update1:
Perhaps here are some more hints (see patch?) : http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php
/TechnoTrend_TT-budget_S2-3200

The link is for Linux. Not relevant for Windows.

Update2:
Was there a solotion at /forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/ci-error-setprogram-failed.96371/#post-745810

It was an idea which is planned to be included in TVE 3.5.

Update3:
There is a new TT-viewer version aviable, so I installed tt-view. After MP with DVB-S (all channels) hangs I opened TT view (no client but tv server still running) and was able to see uncrypted channels. For crypted channels there was no picture!

This confirms what I said to you over and over and over again: this is a CAM/CI problem!

But after closing TT viewer MP was able to show uncrypted channels (but no cyripted) !!! So there MUST BE a kind of reset coming from TT Viewer and it seams that MP had not closes al handles to DVB-S (CAM?)...

Of course. TT viewer opened the CI API when you tried to use it... then it closed it again when you closed it. This is the same thing that TV Server does when the service is started and stopped. Nothing strange here.

Update4:
There is a spezial channel TEST R which tests the dynamic change of channles, it is working well with my MP installation, so the idea further up that MP can not handle that should be wrong...

Yes, as above.

mm

 

[ramu]

Hi mm,

thx for your repy. I already understood that this is a CI/CAM driver problem but hoped reseting would be a good workaround...

I wanted to try your suggestion with the reset:

You can do a reset when the tuner is stopped already by enabling the "always reset graph after stop" debug option:
http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/@api/deki/files/2069/=Capture.JPG

But there is no debug "Debug option" in my TV sever setup menu? Who do I get this option to enable the reset of graph?

UPDATE: I found the commandline: SetupTv.exe /debugoptions and will test what happend

Next I'll take out CAM module for a while to test only uncrypted use of TT card. In addition I'll try to ask tt for further help...

Do You have a idea why the intervals of this occures of that problem so flexible? Sometimes less than 3 hours sometimes more days? Does it make sence to write a test plugin to find out in which exact situation this topic comes up?

Do you have any further advise?

ramu