[News] Future of MP Extensions - Design Concept (3 Viewers)

[Dadeo]

I think there are many such 'options' which can be more easily incorporated into the Extensions plugin (GUI) side of MPEM. once the basics are in place.

Currently Extensions plugin already allows Extensions to offer settings in the GUI, but few use it, so we have to ask - why not? And what can MPEM do to facilitate that?

 

[msj33]

Keep it within Mediaportal, and let it update automatically.

There will/should be a notification about updates. But auto-update? I don't like that for many reasons because it can cause a LOT of harm on your productive system.

Mediaportal is a HTPC software - So let it be configurable with a remote - Just like XBMC.

I agge, yet you can't put all options inside the MP GUI. You can't compare MP with XBMC in that regard because MP has MUCH more config options and doing everything with your remote is a cumbersome process.

However, in MP 1.3.0 Beta, we have already added more options to configure MP into its GUI. So we are working on that.

I still think it should auto-updated..........Even Microsoft finally have figured this out This will rule out older revisions that may have bugs, and keep users on latest version. Users will automatically get new features as well.

To avoid problems in production, we should keep the "Beta" option, so developers, tester and advanced users can test the newest updates. If a mayor production should still occur, then maybe a central revoke procedure from repository could be an option?

In general, most users will rather enjoy their Mediaportal instead of maintaining it with updates and the newest features.

I still believe that Mediaportal have to many options to be configured, both when Installing Mediaportal, but also when installing Extensions.

There should be a design guideline for auto-configured extensions by default.

I especially love the new LAVF addition to Mediaportal - And it's almost 100% auto configured - Now normal users don't have to worry about the codec configuration/mess thats been going on for years.

I hope to see similar for other Core parts of Mediaportal

• Extensions profile - Link your extensions to your Mediaportal Online profile? - when you install/reinstall Mediaportal, your plugins gets installed automatically - Can also be used for central usage statistics(how many have Extensions installed - Not only downloaded).
• .ISO mounting - Manually installed today - Should be installed through a plugin, or even better.........implement feature directly into Mediaportal :0)
• TV Logos - Need to be installed through Extension(s) - Would be nice with a central repository maybe based on Name, location(IP-adress?), etc.
• Radio - Why not just have Pre-configured with Online Radio Channels, with 2 options (Local Language and Global)?
• MPExtended - In my opinion the most promising service for Mediaportal................but its never going to be popular unless it integrates more seamlessly with Mediaportal/MP Extensions.

After more than 7 years with Mediaportal, I personally believe that the last couple of years, XBMC are getting more and more users based on the end-user experience - It basically runs out of the box on almost every OS and Hardware. I think Mediaportal could learn a lot from that, although these 2 systems are somewhat different - But XBMC tends to have the WAF/Ease-of-use factor on higher level. MePo developers should learn from that.
I may have come around some thing that not directly relate to MP extensions - But I see it as one HTPC experience, with MP Extensions being a big part of that - I personally just want to use a more simplified installation/MP Extensions by default.
/Morten[DOUBLEPOST=1353057817][/DOUBLEPOST]

I think there are many such 'options' which can be more easily incorporated into the Extensions plugin (GUI) side of MPEM. once the basics are in place.

Currently Extensions plugin already allows Extensions to offer settings in the GUI, but few use it, so we have to ask - why not? And what can MPEM do to facilitate that?

Spot on!............Keep it simple:0)

You have done some great work with Extensions plugin.

/Morten

 

[Edalex]

@msj33 Agreed with you. Can't say better.
If Extension developer mark next build as stable why not just let autoinstall it?
UPD. After this news alll recent work on improving GUI Settings seems irrelevant
Honestly news about setting priority to standalaone app is the most disappointing for me for last several years.

 

[infinite.loop]

I still think it should auto-updated..........Even Microsoft finally have figured this out This will rule out older revisions that may have bugs, and keep users on latest version. Users will automatically get new features as well.

That has to be a config option. I only update a extension is if see something in the changelog that is actually of interested to me. Every new version has the risk of introducing new bugs. You can not compare that to Microsoft who has a HUGE quality assurance department.
Then there is the risk that the new version is not fully or completely compatible with your skin.

There is a lot to consider when it comes to autoupdates.

I still believe that Mediaportal have to many options to be configured, both when Installing Mediaportal, but also when installing Extensions.

There should be a design guideline for auto-configured extensions by default.

The reason why MP has so many config options is because it supports so many different users and use cases.
Yet I agree that we are lacking a wizard for first time installations.

Auto configuration for many extensions is not possible. Such as i.e. TvSeries. Yet I can imagine that those also provide an wizard for the first time setup.

I especially love the new LAVF addition to Mediaportal - And it's almost 100% auto configured - Now normal users don't have to worry about the codec configuration/mess thats been going on for years.

Yes, that was our goal.

After more than 7 years with Mediaportal, I personally believe that the last couple of years, XBMC are getting more and more users based on the end-user experience - It basically runs out of the box on almost every OS and Hardware. I think Mediaportal could learn a lot from that, although these 2 systems are somewhat different - But XBMC tends to have the WAF/Ease-of-use factor on higher level. MePo developers should learn from that.

Yes, XMBC is very easy to configure and to install. So is MS-MCE. But you also see many users in our forum here who are former users of these and other HTPC applications.
The easy setup comes at a high prize -> Lack of customization and usecases support.

I won't support reducing the functionality of MP just to get the easy setup.

What I always supported however is providing an easy entry for new users. That can be achieved with setup wizards, "simple" configuration mode, etc.
Yet I always had the same trouble as with my extension rework idea. Fining a developer for that kind of work is..... *difficult* to say at least.

 

[tommyc2k7]

Excellent post @msj33, especially about the online Extensions profile.

Also /me slaps @Edalex !

 

[infinite.loop]

If Extension developer mark next build as stable why not just let autoinstall it?

For the reasons I posted.
Yet I am fine with a config option the user can enable if he is aware of the risks.

After this news alll recent work on improving GUI Settings seems irrelevant

Why? Those are not related in any way?

Honestly news about setting priority to standalaone app is the most disappointing for me for last several years.

I think you misunderstood the idea behind this concept entirely.

 

[seco]

I partly understand what @Edalex is saying here, however I'm not sure if he understood that this is not just about the standalone app but whole plugin management concept. But I agree in part that for me the standalone app sounds mostly useless. I do not want to use standalone app on my HTPC to install or configure plugins.

For example, configuring TVSeries is very simple on my HTPC, what I really need to do is set up the shares, which I have one or two. That is basically it, I've never changed any other settings nor do I want to click through import wizard.

The original problem comes from the complex plugins, which have many advanced options and tweaks and stuff which really should not be needed in 90% of cases or at least top 10 settings should be available in MP GUI. I understand that there are use cases for all of these settings since they probably would not exist without a reason.

But making design decisions based on the case that "user has to anyway use mouse and keyboard to configure MP and most of the plugins so we can add yet another standalone app" is wrong in my opinion.

The effort should be put in

1) Plugins, to provide configuration in MP GUI
2) Extensions plugin to have all the features this new standalone app has

 

[Dadeo]

Can I politely ask if anyone actually read the Wiki docs infinite.loop spent so much time providing?
The docs clearly indicate that the Extensions plugin (GUI) component will be INCORPORATED into MPEM with many of the same enhancements proposed, exactly as so many users have requested for ages.

There is a whole page of specs about MP in GUI Management which seems to me pretty obvious how much emphasis and consideration it will receive. So I am completely confused by this discussion about MPEM being a standalone app only! If there is something unclear about those docs, then perhaps constructive suggestions about how to improve them would move us along better?

For the record not everyone has an HTPC in their living room, nor prefer to configure MP via a clunky remote interface. The entire beauty of MP is that is supports users preferences and setups, and does not dictate to them how they should do things.

In the same way MP does not dictate to Extensions how to design their extension - if we did, we would probably have far fewer of them So the goal is to provide Extension developers with the TOOLS to enable setup via GUI.

To reiterate, in case it is still not clear MPEM includes and incorporates the Extensions plugin and offers SIGNIFICANT improvements to installing, updating and configuring plugins via the GUI.

 

[seco]

I don't know but it is quite clear what the documentation there says:

http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_...xtensions_Rework/02_MPEM_(Extensions_Manager)

"MPEM is a stand alone apllication and fully replaces MpeInstaller.exe and MpeMaker.exe."

What comes to Extensions plugin

http://wiki.team-mediaportal.com/1_.../MP_Extensions_Rework/03_MP_in_GUI_Management

Everything described in "Goal" is already possible with current Extensions plugin.

 

[Dadeo]

Thanks @seco - you're right that could be clearer

I was referring to things like:

Install/Update/Uninstall extensions
The idea is to have an windows service, which will manage the actual file moving. Since that service already has the required permissions, no UAC dialog will be shown to the end-user when he installs, updates or uninstalls an extension.

Which is the key requirement to enable Extensions plugin to be part of MP.

It may also be confusing to some that the Extensions plugin may still be distributed as an extension - but this is similar to LAV filters which are incorporated into MP in 1.3.0 but can still be updated via MPEI.