Hybrid Cards, Why the terrible analogue performance? (1 Viewer)

[5Hundred]

TV-Server Version: SVN 15/11/07
MediaPortal Version: svn 15/11/07
MediaPortal Skin: x-face
Windows Version:
CPU Type: XP2200
HDD: 120GB
Memory: 1024MB
Motherboard:
Motherboard Chipset:
Motherboard Bios:
Video Card: FX5200
Video Card Driver: latest
Sound Card: on board 5.1
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver:
1. TV Card: Skystar 2
1. TV Card Type: DVB-S
1. TV Card Driver: BDA
2. TV Card: Pinnacle PCTV 300i
2. TV Card Type: Analog / DVB-T
2. TV Card Driver: BDA
3. TV Card:
3. TV Card Type:
3. TV Card Driver:
4. TV Card:
4. TV Card Type:
4. TV Card Driver:
MPEG2 Video Codec: Power DVD
MPEG2 Audio Codec: Power DVD
Satelite/CableTV Provider: Optus D1
HTPC Case:
Cooling:
Power Supply:
Remote:
TV:
TV - HTPC Connection:


I've been experimenting with Mediaportal for some time now and have found these forums very useful, my questions have always been answered before, until now.

After recently purchasing a Pinnacle PCTV 300i Hybrid card (dvb-t and software encoding analogue) i was hoping to get the best of both worlds.

However i have 2 major problems,

Firstly the TV server version of Mediaportal will scan the channels and enter their details correctly but if asked to preview them will give a no audio/no video detected error. That is despite the fact i can hear the audio in the background (i suspect that this is via the internal cable connecting from the tv card to the sound card). This would suggest the tuning is correct but that Mediaportal does not recognise that the card is outputting.

I've included the TV log where you can see me tune the channels and the last few entries relate to the failed preview.

From much research of these forums it appears to me that there are very few (if any?) users of the TV server who have the analogue side of a hybrid card working.

I would be very interested to hear from those who have got such a card working or from the developers to know if this is unusual or whether better integration is planned.

Secondly I can get the card to work with the standalone version of Mediaportal but the CPU usage is incredible whilst the quality is terrible. I am using the intervideo encoder and when i select it for high quality the CPU usage is approx 100%, the quality is far from high!

Compare this to watching the same channel via intervideo WINDVR3 (the programme i had to install to get the encoder). With this the CPU runs at 25% in full screen or windowed and the quality is excellent. Why the enormous difference, we are talking night and day here.

For me this is a major flaw with Mediaportal, it virtually locks up my system to produce poor quality TV with a software encoding card, yet WINDVR3 which is also a third party software copes admirably.

I'd love to hear others experiences to see if i've stuffed something up with my setup ( i did try other codecs) or whether this is as widespread as i suspect.

To the developers, I do not intend to be critical of your otherwise excellent work but i am interested in the apparent problem Mediaportal has in this area.

 

[Marcusb]

the hybrid cards don't have special hardware to encode the signal, like the better quality dedicated analogue cards.

I'm guessing you already tried lower quality settings in the mp config? It sounds like you have set the quality too high, which is resulting in the high cpu usage and the quality sucks as the cpu can't deliver that.
Even modern PC's will have issues with real time high quality divx encoding.

To test, try and watch analog tv with MPeg2 encoding and see how it goes. I'd say the WINDVR app is probably also using MPG2, which is a much easier thing for the CPU to encode. You'll get huge files (eg 1Gb per hour) but should get better quality.

 

[5Hundred]

Thanks for the reply Marcusb, the point of this post is that i am able to get great quality from this card, but not if use mediaportal. I'm aware that the card is software encoding and had been lead to believe that meant poor quality but this is incorrect, the Pinnacle software and especially Windvr3 can produce good quality at low(ish) CPU cost. I'm trying to figure out why mediaportal cant and why it wont work at all with Tvengine3, despite it being listed as supported on the wiki, one of the reasons i bought this card.

I installed windvr to enable me to use its encoder, is this what you mean by "to test, try and watch analog tv with MPeg2 encoding and see how it goes" if not please elaborate on how i should set this up

I have tried low, medium and high bitrate settings under the encoder setting of the mediportal configuration and go from unwatchable, especially during movement, to ok quality but at maximum CPU cost (PC locks up audio out of sync).

Its very frustrating as i want to use the card with Tvengine3 and i want the performance that clearly it is capable of but mediaportal cannot deliver

Thanks for your interest

 

[Taipan]

I don't have any personal experience with analogue TV cards, so my comments are just suggestions/guesses ...

Firstly the TV server version of Mediaportal will scan the channels and enter their details correctly but if asked to preview them will give a no audio/no video detected error. That is despite the fact i can hear the audio in the background (i suspect that this is via the internal cable connecting from the tv card to the sound card). This would suggest the tuning is correct but that Mediaportal does not recognise that the card is outputting..

You are referring to the analog side here - correct? The DVB-T side is working fine?

Secondly I can get the card to work with the standalone version of Mediaportal but the CPU usage is incredible whilst the quality is terrible. I am using the intervideo encoder and when i select it for high quality the CPU usage is approx 100%, the quality is far from high!

Compare this to watching the same channel via intervideo WINDVR3 (the programme i had to install to get the encoder). With this the CPU runs at 25% in full screen or windowed and the quality is excellent. Why the enormous difference, we are talking night and day here.

This might have something to do with VMR9 versus Video Overlay modes? MediaPortal uses VMR9 and I am guessing that WINDVR3 uses Overlay.

Have you used GraphEdit to see what encoder/decoder combination is actually being used by MediaPortal and compared that with WINDVR3?

If you record some analog TV, but not view it at the same time so that only the encoder is in use, what CPU% do you get?

If you then view the recorded analog TV, what CPU% do you get?

Do you have DxVA enabled in your video decoder? (CyberLink?)

 

[5Hundred]

Thanks for your input, good point about the VMR9, when simply recording the CPU usage was still at around 70%, way above windvr3. CPU usage on playback was much lower, 25% from memory. Dxva was enabled.

I need the functionality of the TVengine and so have now ditched the basic version of mediaportal and can no longer test your suggestions as this card is not working with the TVserver. In the meantime i'll use multishortcut to open windvr and use that to watch analogue channels with this card (no dvb-t here yet).

I'm going to start another thread pointing out that this card is not supported by the TVengine

thanks anyways

 

[Marcusb]

Hi, I think you misunderstood what I meant

It's possible that MP is trying to compress the file in real time with a codec that the CPU isn't strong enough to handle - EG high quality DivX or something. This would explain the high usage and bad results.

the best way to tell is to record something for an hour with WinDVR and see the file size. It the size is around 1Gb per hour then it's probably MPeg2 which is bigger but much less work for the CPU to encode.
I know that you don't have this set up any more, but you could also record for an hour with MP and see how big the file is. Is it the same size as with WinDVR?
To know for sure you could also analyse the file with a program that tells you the statistics of a video file - codec, bitrate etc. These things will all cause high CPU and bad quality if set wrong.