[News] MediaPortal 2 - 10th Anniversary Edition -UPDATE 1- released (1 Viewer)

[josch.hh]

It is less an issue with MP but more its basis, i.e. Windows.
...but you should really think of switching to Linux. This is the future.

Hmmm. Have you taken a look at the PC operating system market share for Linux recently?
Linux may be the future... in your opinion... but for now most statistics show that only a tiny proportion of consumers use it.
For the record, I have nothing against Linux. In fact I actually like it a lot.

Hmm, and did you check for what purpose the share of windows pc's are used? ;-)

 

[mm1352000]

Hmm, and did you check for what porpose the share of windows pc's are used?

Stats are not usually categorised by purpose because it is too difficult to get information. The exception is internet browsing for which it is possible/easy to measure.
If you are trying to say that people who use PCs for media mostly use Linux then I challenge you to produce statistics that show that. For now I wouldn't believe such a statement.
I point to the statistics because regardless of the actual situation for media PCs, the potential market for MP running on Windows is significantly larger.

 

[josch.hh]

Hmm, and did you check for what porpose the share of windows pc's are used?

I point to the statistics because regardless of the actual situation for media PCs, the potential market for MP running on Windows is significantly larger.

We can dicuss for hours on this. I stick to my point that Windows is no more a good basis of a HTPC as Linux is today.
I know taht having a critical opinion concerning the sense of MP is not very popular in this forum, so feel free to shout at me.
I am happy to use OE which is running more stable with TVH as TV server on my HTPC then MP ever did. Again, not due to major MP issues, but also from Windows point of view. One good example is the bad driver situation on windows for the TV cards. But I will now stop to comment on this before i get killed.

 

[mm1352000]

...so feel free to shout at me.
...
But I will now stop to comment on this before i get killed.

Nobody is going to shout at or kill you.
You're entitled to your opinion. I have a different opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Good luck with your new configuration...

 

[Ericjuh]

...so feel free to shout at me.
...
But I will now stop to comment on this before i get killed.

Nobody is going to shout at or kill you.
You're entitled to your opinion. I have a different opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Good luck with your new configuration...

Both offcourse can have a different opinion about it, but you can not totally disagree with his point.

Trust me, he doesnt wanne flame you all and say you doing a wrong job. And that is lately a bit of a problem with mediaportal. I use mediaportal from the start, i donated, i try to help other people (outside this website, for example the thread on http://gathering.tweakers.net) configurating and next to that i like to give some feedback to developers. I did it recently in this threat: https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/mediaportal-1-10-0-pre-release-ready.128351/ and you replied to it. But after seeing multiple reply's from "normal" users i get the feeling that feedback is seen here as criticism. Ppl are starting to disagree post from those uses and are like-ing post from developers and nobody benefits from it.

To give some extra information on josch.hh reply. I really think he has a point. Where i start running mediaportal (roughtly) 7 years ago i had only 1 operation system running in my house, namely Windows. That was it. Linux was to hard for me to start with and Osx was just to expansive to start with. Nowdays i have multiple devices in my building, 2 windows pc, 1 raspberry with linux, 1 laptop with osx, 2 ipads, 1 iphone, a android stick and with all the functionality i can almost say a extra linux system from my synology NAS. And i'm that guy that wanne watch tv/movies from all the places in my house.. Even with all the traveling and the beter 4g/Wifi connections i also wanne watch TV/movies outside. To get all this to work i need to install mediaportal, Kodi and plex. After this i need to install multiple addons to get some integration between those systems. Other systems are getting cheaper and much more integrated into home.

Yes, i tried mediaportal 2 and it is still not replacing my mediaportal version. Even when its a few years in the development it is, currently, not that good supported as mediaportal v1.x. It has potential, but how long this is going to take is for me unknown. I know, even before i made that post in the 1.10 pre release, that i can run mp and mp2 next to each other. But when my girlfriends wants to watch a movie or tv it just needs to work. That's why mediaportal is still the main system for my htpc in the livingroom. It won't get replaced by mediaportal 2 soon if i check the changes. (offtopic: apollo one seems like a very nice skin to start MP2 with btw and i'm looking forward to a much beter SlimTV). In the mediaportal 2 secion i can see post from 2010. That's is 4 years in the making without a beta.

I really hoped mediaportal 2 was far ahead in development and that we are starting to talk about mediaportal 3, instead of me making this post. There are so many things the basic of mediaportal can improve. It is really sad to see that there are shortage in developers, but developing 2 different versions (mp1.10 and mp2) makes the improvement much slower. I really hope there is soon a point where you say that all bugs in mp1 will be fixed in mp2 and that there will be no future 1.x releases.. only mp2 releases.

You can offcourse like this post, disagree this post or dislike it.. still its a voice from one of your users.

 

[The_Stig]

But after seeing multiple reply's from "normal" users i get the feeling that feedback is seen here as criticism. Ppl are starting to disagree post from those uses and are like-ing post from developers and nobody benefits from it.

I guess is simply because Team Members are a bit more "active" on the Like/Disagree etc buttons. But me personally has never seen anything personal from the team on well founded criticism or discussions.

Your's and josh's posts are well posted and you surely have points about the ongoing development and media needs and possibilities. But mm answered that still Windows is regarding user counts still a good go. Is it perfect? No...of course not. Did I for myself find a better solution for my needs (TV, 2 Client, iPad, Web Access to Media)? No, not what I tried so far.

And last words: Tried MP2 a few days ago and was totally stunned by the speed and the easy configuration. Let the guys do a few magic with a few open points and it will absolutely be the best all-in-one HTPC solution. Thats at leas my personal opinion. Merry christmas everybody...

 

[Spragleknas]

@josch.hh : No need to leave the discussion. I also think you and @Ericjuh are making fair points regarding Windows; it is not as predominant as it used to be when it comes to "home"/private usage.

Btw, I'm writing now on my Chromebook... I don't even got a Windows computer, besides what is used for MP - and at work. My GF got a Win. computer, but I'm really sure the next one she gets is not. My daughter wants a Chromebook as well, due to the win. PC being very sluggish (format c:, anyone? Defrag? Clean registry?...) and in constant need for updates, scanning +++. Oh, two days ago my mother picked up a.... Chromebook! She is ditching Windows (Yay! Saves me a lot of time!).

Only time will show if Windows will be at a dominant "home-OS" in the future. If so, I think they need to something with prizing and simplicity. Which again would be good for MP .

 

[msj33]

Yes, i tried mediaportal 2 and it is still not replacing my mediaportal version. Even when its a few years in the development it is, currently, not that good supported as mediaportal v1.x. It has potential, but how long this is going to take is for me unknown. I know, even before i made that post in the 1.10 pre release, that i can run mp and mp2 next to each other. But when my girlfriends wants to watch a movie or tv it just needs to work. That's why mediaportal is still the main system for my htpc in the livingroom. It won't get replaced by mediaportal 2 soon if i check the changes. (offtopic: apollo one seems like a very nice skin to start MP2 with btw and i'm looking forward to a much beter SlimTV). In the mediaportal 2 secion i can see post from 2010. That's is 4 years in the making without a beta.

I really hoped mediaportal 2 was far ahead in development and that we are starting to talk about mediaportal 3, instead of me making this post. There are so many things the basic of mediaportal can improve. It is really sad to see that there are shortage in developers, but developing 2 different versions (mp1.10 and mp2) makes the improvement much slower. I really hope there is soon a point where you say that all bugs in mp1 will be fixed in mp2 and that there will be no future 1.x releases.. only mp2 releases.

I totally agree - Seems like MePo is left somewhere in between version1 and 2 - Furthermore I keep seeing posts about missing developers on both MePo and addons!?!

-Barely news on the Homepage - Except release notes (No blogs, polls or anything else any longer)
-If I just look at the Sourceforge download statistics - It looks like users are bailing out on MePo these days! (Or is it just me!?)

MePo1

• Can't recall which new version of MePo 1 actually added some new useful functionality for the majority of users.
  • Although there have been a lot of bugfixing, I have not come upon a single but in the last 4-5 release -So thats actually nice - but are we actually spending valuable time bugfixing very small and minor bugs
• Skins - The default skins provided is NOT working out-of-the-box - titan tiles and navigation are one big mess by default!
  • Just do a simple installation of either Titan or Default - then adding plugin messes it up further, unless you edit manually.
• Addons - Personally I'm happy to see Netflix integrated in OV and seeing some nice progress on Skype4MP - But also seeing a huge lack of development on external acess paltforms like Webmediaportal, mpextended and aMPdroid - Development seem to have stopped completely.
• Basically MePo offers nothing special out-of-the-box - every user is forced do do post-installation of Movie-addon, video-streaming-Addon, Music streaming-addon, Logo-addon etc. - although they all might work, Mepo seems to be clugged up in installation and configuration settings and procedures.

MePo2

• I'm not impressed that you havn't even got a Beta after years of development.
• Have tried to use MePo 3 or 4 times along the way........have given up every time.
• It has som basic functionality, but not intuitive or user frinedly at all - Far from user friendly for a first time user!
• Yes, it early Alpha........But will it ever be ready? (I guess users have migrated for other software by then:-( )

Kodi/XBMC:

• Although it do have some flaws and occasional crashes, the development continues to grow in the community expanding across different platforms and hardware.
• Install of plugins, setup of music & movies folders incl. scraping just works........It just WORKS, and integrates withut even usage of a keyboard or mouse!
• Ease of installation - Even install files to a SD-card an boot from it - Kodi(Basic) starts without any config/options to set up.
• If it was not for the TV-part of MePo, I would propably have switched to Kodi/XBMC around 1 year ago.

Ideas and suggestions:

• Ask & Search for new developers! (Sorry can't help......unless you want help on design and usability)
• A vast majority of users are dependant of a VERY few plugins(Check the statistics/downloads!) - Why not continue to make these dependencies more userfriendly and easy to install and configure - Or even merge functionality that just works into MePo(Moving pictures, Onlinevideos).
• Make better use of the community - feels like the MePo2 development/design are somewhat behind closed doors, and the community are not invited in to discuss the ideas and development behind the scenes - Could need some further transparency - hopefully at least discussions and developemnt are taking place.
  • Automatic Crash reporting
  • Polls
  • Vote for bugfixing and Feature requests(dropbox had huge success at this)
  • News and blogs.
  • Design and development workshops or sprints
• Keep it simple - Can't count how many times I have now set up MePo - Endless hours of configuration and plugin on every new installation.
  • It's actually the most annoying part of MePo if you ask me.

Have used Mediaportal for quite some years now on a daily bases, and have never felt as bad for it as now - It works for me daily and it's stable - But I'm very concerned about MePo in general and the developement - It seemed to have lost development)FTE) and community over time:-(

Can stress this enough - Thanks for all the effort and free time developers are putting into these projects - I just got to be completely honest from and end user perspective - I and others are propably more than happy to assist in getting MePo to the next stage - But many of us maybe feel we not invited to the party.

/Morten

 

[EWeiss]

remove

 

[mm1352000]

Gosh sometimes I wish everybody could see the internal forums.

I'm grateful for the feedback. This response is only to show that I'm reading. Not trying to disagree. Just to show that there is somebody listening and engaged.

Morten, there's no internal party.
The level of activity reflects the low number of active developers and how much time they have.

Ask & Search for new developers! (Sorry can't help......unless you want help on design and usability)

We try to pick up on anybody that shows any interest in developing, and invite them to join the team.

A vast majority of users are dependant of a VERY few plugins(Check the statistics/downloads!) - Why not continue to make these dependencies more userfriendly and easy to install and configure - Or even merge functionality that just works into MePo(Moving pictures, Onlinevideos).

We could try to make it easier to install such plugins by adding options in the installer... but in some ways that adds complexity to setup, which is what you later say you want us to avoid ("keep it simple").
Complexity of plugin configuration is entirely in the hands of the plugin developer(s).
I don't actively think about merging plugins, because the team is barely large enough to manage the core code. The effort involved in developing and supporting plugins... IMHO we simply don't have the capacity. I also think that having independence enables more flexibility - independent release cycle, less bureaucracy (JIRA, code reviews, documentation etc.) - and gives a better sense of ownership/achievement.

Make better use of the community - feels like the MePo2 development/design are somewhat behind closed doors, and the community are not invited in to discuss the ideas and development behind the scenes - Could need some further transparency - hopefully at least discussions and developemnt are taking place.

Hmmm, I don't really agree with this point either.
Some of the biggest things that are being worked on with MP2 are developed entirely in public. Recent examples:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/concept-switch-mp2-to-d3d11-d2d-rendering.128849/
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...right-to-left-languages-hebrew-arabic.128061/
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/apollo-one.121706/

Not to mention the fact that MP2 has weekly development snapshots.

Automatic Crash reporting

Heard of One True Error?
https://www.team-mediaportal.com/team-blog/error-reporting-service

(A blog!!! )

Poll

Personally I'm trying to do that a bit with TVE 3.5 development. A couple of examples:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/tv-server-conflictsmanager-plugin.128004/
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...channel-scanning-create-group-options.128420/

Vote for bugfixing and Feature requests(dropbox had huge success at this)

From a TVE 3.5 feature request perspective (which is what I work on, so all I can really speak on): I'm not interested at this point. IMHO TVE 3.5 architecture/"building blocks" needs to be sorted first. After that (when we have something to build on) we can talk about what the community would like to add. If we just add and add, we get into the same situation that TVE 3 is in - a mess which can't be extended easily any more.

About bugfixes: pretty much the same as above. TVE 3.5 needs to be stable enough for people to try/use. Otherwise bug reports become overwhelming. So let me get the basics right first. Then we can do the fine tuning (bug fixing) later.

News and blogs.

It is hard to get the balance between development and communication right. When there's something big/newsworthy happening we generally do blog. As it happens, MP1 releases are the biggest things happening with MP1 right now, and generally the release news talks a bit about what has been done. I'm not sure what more we could write about.

Design and development workshops or sprints

That's part of the point of having weekly builds for MP2. If you want to be involved with that kind of thing then start installing the weekly builds and provide feedback.

Keep it simple - Can't count how many times I have now set up MePo - Endless hours of configuration and plugin on every new installation. It's actually the most annoying part of MePo if you ask me.

Are you talking primarily about MP1 here?
I guess the question is does the complexity come from MP configuration, plugin configuration, or the fact that you have to install plugins to get the functions/features you want?
Personally I don't think MP configuration is particularly complex... but then I don't use any plugins. Never have.

why are old problems not resolved

Examples?

instead, is converted to DX11

Do you have a problem with this?
If so, why? ...and have you read the thread to really understand what is going on?

not all WPF specialists
and without it is difficult
The discourages developers from ever developing plugins.

This issue has been discussed in our internal forum recently.
One outcome of the discussion was that it is practically not possible or desirable to change the skin engine now.
You could either learn WPF/MPF basics (...maybe by looking at the Apollo One thread as an example), or ask for help developing the skin part of a plugin.


Again, want to emphasize I'm very grateful for the feedback. My answer is not intended as an argument against anything that has been said. Just trying to engage with the comments, so nobody can say that we're not listening (!).