Mediaportal EVR renderer output 16-235? (1 Viewer)

[rohnfe]

Hi all,

somehow i lost my account and needed to open a new one...
I have some questions regarding the renderer MP is using (EVR)... as i was about to calibrate my TV with HCFR these days i ran into some issues in regards to the setup of the video pipline to get the best/proper picture - specially in regards to the RGB range and setting up contrast and brightness with flashing bars patterns.
As i found out EVR that MP uses is only putting out RGB 0-255...
First is this correct ? I guess this can`t be changed?

I wanted to use Media Player Classic to show the calibration patterns (16-235) - easier to use for showing the patterns -
so i setup MPHC the same way as LAV Filters in MP are setup.

This is the setup i tried to use to get Blacker than Black and Whiter than White setup the way it should be:

TV: 16-235
GPU: 0-255 Full RGB (NVIDIA 425M)
LAV: 16-235
Renderer: EVR 0-255 only ?

Somehow it seems that i can`t get BTB and WTW to show up whenever using EVR (using flashing bars Testpatterns)...
EVR custom presenter and MadVR for example is working without problems but EVR is not...attachFull169194

Does anybody have an idea how to setup the complete "chain" to get this working?
I have been reading through several guides including the one here in this forum but nothing seems to be working.

Desktop colorspace is not a concern here as i wanted to have it setup for movies in first row...

Is there a way to setup MP to put out 16-235 ?



Greetings

Felix

 

[kiwijunglist]

WTW and BTB information is in the 0-16 and 235-255 colour space, so if you want to see this information then the ideal setting is

Either:

(1) TV receives RGB Limited 16-235
LAV: default (ie don't convert colour space, let the renderer do it)
GPU: RGB Limited 16-235

or

(2) TV receivers YbCbCr
LAV: default
GPU: YbCbCr (Full range)

or

(3) TV receives RGB Full 0-255
LAV: default (ie don't convert colour space, let the renderer do it)
GPU: RGB Full 0-255



If you are using MePo to play your videos then I recommend you calibrate inside MePo not using MPC-HC.

With the problem you describe it sounds like your TV/AVR is clipping 0-16 and 235-255, ie if you send it full range rgb it only shows the 16-235, that is why you only see wtw btb with full range in gpu, but 16-235 in the renderer. ie. your display/avr is not handling full range rgb correctly. I have the same problem if I run HDMI through my pioneer avr. I'm guessing (1) + (2) will work for you and (3) won't. The fix would be to use (1) or (2) OR plug your tv directly into your video card and use (3)

Your "working BTB WTW" setup in mpc-hc basically gets 0-255 ybcbcr video (LAV) then converts to rgb 0-255 (MadVR) then compresses to rgb 16-235 (MadVR), then pads back to rgb 0-255 (MadVR), then outputs rgb 0-255 (GPU) then clips down to rgb 16-235 (Display)

 

[kiwijunglist]

PS:

You should also do a screenshot of what you mean by "LAV: 16-235". If you only tick the output mode, but don't disable the YUV options then it will output YUV video in YUV colourspace (ie 0-255) and wont actually output at 16-235 even if you tick the box.

 

[rohnfe]

First thanks for your answer!
I have read a lot on this stuff the last days and also talked to guy that has made the calibration disc i am using.
What i figured out was the way to get this done with as less convertion as possible is to have the following setup (if you dont care about games and desktop colors):

TV: 16-235
GPU:0-255 (otherwise it might convert forth and back internally at least to what i`ve "seen")
Render: 16-235
LAV/Decoder: untouched or 16:235

This is how i got it to work with MPHC and for example Kodi (internal option for 16-235 activated)
While at the same time it was not working for MP (same LAV settings) using EVR... therefore i chose EVR (not EVR custom presenter which is working) in MPHC and suddenly it was not working there too.
This is why i came up with this question and i dont think my AVR (Yamaha RX765) cuts.

To be honest i was not sure about the LAV settings you mentioned (YUV) i will have to check this again and probably post some screenshots later on.

Thanks so far!![DOUBLEPOST=1441869708][/DOUBLEPOST]Thank you very much for your hint in regards to LAV YUV settings it really looks like this was the wrong setting...

But i am still curious which would be the best setup for the video chain... with as less convertions as possible...

 

[kiwijunglist]

If you cant see 0-16 on the tv with a full range rgb signal despite putting up the brightness to max then either the tv or the avr is clipping.

when you set the renderer to 16-235 you can see 0-16 because you are compressing the video and then the padding is clipped.

Some people get confused because movies are in a 16-235 colourspace inside a 0-255 container. The calibration is 0-255 colourspace inside the same 0-255 container. Your current "working" setup is clipping 0-16 and 235-255, but you still see the 0-16 in the calibration video because it compresses 0-255 into 16-235 then pads.

At the end of the day, it's ok to clip 0-16 as it's 'empty' in movies.

Yes, setting GPU to RGB Full 0-255 can skip a conversion step, but you have multiple other conversion steps happening.

 

[rohnfe]

Your current "working" setup is clipping 0-16 and 235-255, but you still see the 0-16 in the calibration video because it compresses 0-255 into 16-235 then pads.

I guess you mean without changing the YUV settings in LAV ? Right now there is only RGB activated which should not clip anything when GPU is set to full... please correct me if this is wrong. I have attached the MePo LAV settings to.



Sounds kind of logic.. but whatever i have read for example in avsforum is that one should go for Full RGB on GPU

 

[kiwijunglist]

if your using madvr you should do the yuv to rgb conversion in madvr not lav.

normal process is
mkv (yuv) -> lav -> yuv -> madvr (RGB 0-255 or RGB 16-235) -> gpu
mkv (yuv) -> lav -> yuv -> evr (RGB 0-255 only) -> gpu

The forum assumes no clipping, you are clipping. I use a splitter to bypass my avr, bc i get clipping when i run RGB Full through the avr. (It doesn't clip YbCbCr or RGB Limited)

If you set madvr to 16-235 you are padding, if you can't put padding in because you are using evr you can put padding in by using lav to convert to 16-235 rgb OR you can just send the avr limited rgb.

Running 16-235 in madvr is not a good idea, bc you are basically losing colour depth with the compression.

 

[rohnfe]

i am not using madvr as MePo does not... it was just a test for setting things up
Thats exactly what i want to achieve - no clipping - and to what i know till now the following settings should not clip anything (besides i need to check im my AVR is not)

LAV: untouched
GPU: 0-255/16-235
TV: 16-235

Sorry if i still get something wrong

 

[kiwijunglist]

Well my suspicion is that your avr/tv are clipping the full rgb (0-255) signal.

The only possible way to not see 0-16 flash is either
1. Brightness set too low.
2. AVR/TV is clipping.

Even though you can alter settings on the pc to avoid the clipping the fact that certain settings can cause clipping means that your gear is not handling full range rgb properly.

I'd suggest create the situation that causes clipping. Then use same settings but plug tv directly into pc and recheck (with high brightness).

Clipping the 0-16 range doesn't actually matter for most people, however you want btb and wtw.

For calibration i recommend you play the videos inside mp rather than mpchc.

 

[rohnfe]

I'd suggest create the situation that causes clipping. Then use same settings but plug tv directly into pc and recheck (with high brightness).

Guess i will check that too.
Anyhow changing the settings within LAV might have already solved it.. i will double check later on [DOUBLEPOST=1441891926][/DOUBLEPOST]I will also make another check with a separare BD DiscPlayer to be sure