MP recording or 4TR: pros and cons? (1 Viewer)

[infinite.loop]

What would you prefer Infinity?

Sometimes i really miss a more advanced scheduler. So i do have an open ear for this, even though my limited sparetime did not allow to test 4TR yet (too much work to do to get our MP releases done ).

But during the 4 years i am working on this project now, i learned that such integrations are not that easy.
A couple of times there were really nice features which we would have loved to integrate. But when you then start to look at the code, you sometimes realize that it can not be integrated (or the dev wants that it stays a community plugin).

In this specific case it is mainly up to DVDfreak, because he would have to release 4TR under gpl to make a integration into the TV-server even possible.
But also then, i would estimate that it takes a couple of months to merge the code and get it to a "stable" condition for a release build.
Months of tweaking and bugfixing would follow.

For now, it seems that 4TR and TV-Server stay as they are, and we will try to change our TV-Server to allow more flexibillity

Maybe we will talk about a merge again as soon as we start to work on the MediaPortal2 inbuilt TV-Engine 4 (next generation of TV-Server).
Seems that this day is getting closer and closer.

 

[dvdfreak]

In my humble opinion TV Server NextGen (aka 4) should evolve to be a "service" just like For The Record is built up from a number of services. I put service between quotes since I mean this to be the architectural meaning of the word, not to be confused with what a Windows service is

For The Record is running in one Windows service, but actually exposes six WCF services (ConfigurationService, ForTheRecordService, LogService, TvControlService, TvGuideService and TvSchedulerService) with a well-defined API (which can be downloaded here BTW).

As a basic starting point for what such a TV Server service could look like you could even use For The Record's own RecorderTunerService API as inspiration...

 

[JoeSmith]

i personally think FTR and the TVServer should stay seperated for now.
Right now FTR has never crashed or did not record a planned recording on my system.
There are a few minor bugs (and the devs are pretty fast in fixing them) but in general it seems to be a fine piece of software (like mp ;-) ).
The main problem is that too little people know about FTR, and that for a starter and someone who just wants to test it too many things have to be done.
The installation routines are really good now, but i would like to point out some "problems" :
-propably too much to read for someone who likes to test, might scare people
-maybe you should provide a direkt link to the Ajax stuff, if someone has not installed it, you get a error message while installing (might scare people...)
-if possible automate the installation of the additional windows stuff that is needed for the webinterface (again might scare and i even see people fail here)
-include an option during the installation process to get all channels and groups from mp, maybe even copy the logo files straight to FTRs logo folder. I think this might be the point where most newcomers struggle.

Don't get me wrong, i'm fine with the way FTR is right now, but i do see the problems that people who are new to FTR might have. And these might be the reason they give up on FTR.
I personally think that FTR does not get the credit it deserves because it's really fantastic. There are so many great possibilities to plan recordings. I don't wanna sound like a fanboy, but it's in no way compareable to the way i programmed before. Suddenly i have discovered things that i would have never recorded if i was still using MPs own recording system. It's not that MPs system would be bad, but now i can make a list of my favorite actors and ftr shows me the movies they are in. Or i can tell the system to record all episodes of the simpsons, but only the ones that run on mondays and are in the 20-22 timeframe. GREAT!!
Maybe it would be possible to integrate FTRs mp plugin directly into the tvplugin or just find a way to let them coexist more naturally (if i remember it correctly the tv plugin is renamed right now)

Ok, thats enough for today
Joe

@infinityloop :
If you have the time ... try it

 

[Bagal]

I agree with the comments saying that MP and 4TR should be kept separate.

As has been said for first time users configuring 4TR can be a bit daunting, if they're having to install MP for the first time as well as 4TR then this could put them off of MP altogether, which I think we can all agree would not be a good thing.

I like the fact that they're separate, it means MP devs can concentrate on making MP the best it can be and 4TR devs can concentrate on making 4TR the best it can be and for users it gives us more choices which is always a good thing.

I also think that one of 4TR's main strengths is its support of multiple recorder/tuners, sure this might not be a great benefit to MP but it is a great benefit to the HTPC community as a whole (as an aside, I'm assuming it would be possible to use another recorder/tuner such as GB-PVR, but use MP as the client front end, which gives users the choice to mix and match their favourite HTPC software).

One thing I would like to see is 4TR have its own forum within the MP forums, I know dvdfreak likes to direct people to the 4TR website forum, which is fair enough, but having its own forum on MP would stop the "For The Record xxxx release" threads from getting too huge and would also perhaps help highlight 4TR as being the great plugin/system that it is.

 

[Paranoid Delusion]

On the point of the FORUM, I'm pretty sure that dvdfreak would rather concentrate on the one place to support his users, the downside to this is, irregular activity on the forum's of the TV recording software he supports, can lead to people not acknowledging or knowing about this great piece of kit.

Trying to find a balance\time must be incredibly hard work, this of course also applies to all the MediaPortal developers as well.

Sometimes people forget there is life outside of MP, like I remind my daughter there's life outside animals

 

[dvdfreak]

-propably too much to read for someone who likes to test, might scare people
-maybe you should provide a direkt link to the Ajax stuff, if someone has not installed it, you get a error message while installing (might scare people...)
-if possible automate the installation of the additional windows stuff that is needed for the webinterface (again might scare and i even see people fail here)
-include an option during the installation process to get all channels and groups from mp, maybe even copy the logo files straight to FTRs logo folder. I think this might be the point where most newcomers struggle.

Thank you, this is valuable feedback.

The IIS issue is tricky and something we don't have much control over I fear. It's too bad Microsoft made IIS installation optional, so now most users do indeed need to install it before installing For The Record (at least when they'd like to use Web Access, but who doesn't ).

I'll see if we can improve the Ajax detection and immediately provide a link to the download location if it's not installed.

 

[kkendall]

Ok, it's getting clear here most current users like to keep it separate for now.
But all agree that it should somehow get more attention than it gets at the moment.
Ie. like the plugins in the "Hot Plugins" section.
Maybe there should be a general plugins section, not separated (in tv server plugins and mediaportal plugins) like it is now. With a general "Hot Plugins" section so 4TR can be placed there.
I think the general users of MP don't even know there is a seperation of MP and the tv part, most consider the tv part and the rest of MP as one: MediaPortal. I actually thought that with 1.0, the 2 different engines for handling the tv would stop to exsist next to eachother... I thought all would switch over to tvengine 3 because it can handle everything engine 2 can, so why have both...
Having one (engine3) tv engine means you can have one MP version, which means less confusion, and reduces the vastness of the forum and improves the ability to find more, ie. one plugin section.

Or maybe an option during the installation that asks if you want to use the 4TR plugin or the native MP recording section.

 

[doornjoostje]

-propably too much to read for someone who likes to test, might scare people
-maybe you should provide a direkt link to the Ajax stuff, if someone has not installed it, you get a error message while installing (might scare people...)
-if possible automate the installation of the additional windows stuff that is needed for the webinterface (again might scare and i even see people fail here)
-include an option during the installation process to get all channels and groups from mp, maybe even copy the logo files straight to FTRs logo folder. I think this might be the point where most newcomers struggle.

Thank you, this is valuable feedback.

The IIS issue is tricky and something we don't have much control over I fear. It's too bad Microsoft made IIS installation optional, so now most users do indeed need to install it before installing For The Record (at least when they'd like to use Web Access, but who doesn't ).

I'll see if we can improve the Ajax detection and immediately provide a link to the download location if it's not installed.

Might be a good idea to make a installation script just like MP has. Then it can be installed automaticly, just like the SQL servier is right now.

 

[dvdfreak]

Might be a good idea to make a installation script just like MP has. Then it can be installed automaticly, just like the SQL servier is right now.

Perhaps we can find some enthousiastic For The Record user to help us out with a deploy-tool like this. I fear we lack the time to implement something like this right now

It could indeed make sure SQL Express is installed, .NET 3.0 SP1 (or 3.5 SP1), IIS, Ajax,... before starting the actual setup.

Any takers?

 

[rtv]

Perhaps we can find some enthousiastic For The Record user to help us out with a deploy-tool like this. I fear we lack the time to implement something like this right now

It could indeed make sure SQL Express is installed, .NET 3.0 SP1 (or 3.5 SP1), IIS, Ajax,... before starting the actual setup.

Any takers?

That's the main reason against closed source.
People's motivation to work on something that "belongs" to another person isn't particularly high.

The end of TVCentral was a good example: Many community members contributed excellent stuff to a product which was cancelled by it's own company - now everything is "lost". This doesn't happen with open source...