Rescan but keep customised channel numbers (LCNs)? (1 Viewer)

DragonQ

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Hi,

I have customised channel numbers so at the moment whenever I rescan (either everything or a single transponder/multiplex), any channels that are "updated" have their channel numbers reset to whatever the provider has chosen. For example, I have BBC One HD as channel 1, but on Freesat it's channel 108. So whenever I do scan that includes the transponder with this channel, it gets "updated" and the channel number resets to 108. :(

Is there any way to rescan but keep the current channel numbers for existing channels? If not, is this feature planned for a future version? It'd be nice to do a rescan say once a week just to get new channels and not have to worry about renumbering everything all the time.

Thanks.
 

Deco

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Bump ...
This would be very useful for me too. I've renumbered all my channels to match Freesat numbering.
Cheers,
Deco.
 

mm1352000

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    Hi guys

    I don't think it is possible at the mo. Some people may want it updated and some not. Will keep this in mind but would rather avoid adding yet another setting.

    mm
     

    DragonQ

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    What's wrong with settings? There is a "simple" and "expert" mode for Config, right? What is "expert" mode for, if not more user flexibility?? :confused:

    New channels should always assume the channel number found during scan but "updated" channels should definitely keep their channel numbers unless the user decides otherwise. IMO, of course. :)
     

    mm1352000

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    What's wrong with settings?
    They confuse people when there are too many of them. ;)

    There is a "simple" and "expert" mode for Config, right? What is "expert" mode for, if not more user flexibility?? :confused:
    Not in TV Server configuration there isn't.

    New channels should always assume the channel number found during scan but "updated" channels should definitely keep their channel numbers unless the user decides otherwise. IMO, of course. :)
    As above: people can have different opinions.
     

    DragonQ

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    Oh yeah the expert mode is for program config. Maybe TV-Server should have an expert mode? ;)

    The only situation I can think of where people would want channel numbers changed is if they want to exactly mirror a service (e.g. Freeview, Sky or Freesat in the UK). There are plugins for those though and they let you download channel number information.

    On the other hand, for people who either use their own numbering system or don't want the channel numbers changing when rescanning, it's a massive pain to redo channel numbers. The current system for changing channel numbers is, let's face it, poor - you have to right-click a channel, go to edit, then double-click every single source for that channel and change the number, plus you can't even press "Enter" to confirm so you have to keep switching between mouse and keyboard. If it was an editable field in the channel list then it wouldn't be so bad.

    As it is now, I have to keep on top of new/changed channels on satellite on KingOfSat.net so I can manually scan each relevant transponder...and even then, any channels I already had from that transponder have their channel numbers reset. Massive headache. :(
     
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    mm1352000

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    Oh yeah the expert mode is for program config. Maybe TV-Server should have an expert mode? ;)
    Perhaps. :)

    The only situation I can think of where people would want channel numbers changed is if they want to exactly mirror a service (e.g. Freeview, Sky or Freesat in the UK). There are plugins for those though and they let you download channel number information.
    Yes... but I think this is a quite common demand.

    On the other hand, for people who either use their own numbering system or don't want the channel numbers changing when rescanning, it's a massive pain to redo channel numbers. The current system for changing channel numbers is, let's face it, poor - you have to right-click a channel, go to edit, then double-click every single source for that channel and change the number, plus you can't even press "Enter" to confirm so you have to keep switching between mouse and keyboard. If it was an editable field in the channel list then it wouldn't be so bad.
    The LCN is not currently a field on the channel, which is why it has to be edited that way. There is a patch under consideration for MP 1.3b that will copy the LCN to the channel details. This is partly so that you can set the LCN when combining channels, but you may also find that it gives you the behaviour you want (LCN not updated in scan) - haven't checked this. I don't think the patch makes the LCN editable from the channel list but at least you wouldn't have to go right into the tuning details. Fair compromise? :)

    As it is now, I have to keep on top of new/changed channels on satellite on KingOfSat.net so I can manually scan each relevant transponder...and even then, any channels I already had from that transponder have their channel numbers reset. Massive headache. :(
    So you're watching KingOfSat to minimise the scanning and therefore minimise the LCN fixing after scanning?

    mm
     

    DragonQ

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    The LCN is not currently a field on the channel, which is why it has to be edited that way. There is a patch under consideration for MP 1.3b that will copy the LCN to the channel details. This is partly so that you can set the LCN when combining channels, but you may also find that it gives you the behaviour you want (LCN not updated in scan) - haven't checked this. I don't think the patch makes the LCN editable from the channel list but at least you wouldn't have to go right into the tuning details. Fair compromise? :)
    If channels have an LCN, rather than each channel source having an LCN (which seems silly), then it would be a bit easier. But if this was the case, why couldn't it be listed and editable right there in the channel list (along with the name of the channel)? That'd make it SO much easier to edit both channel names and LCNs for most people.

    This still doesn't help when you rescan everything though, it'd still take absolutely ages. You could have an "import/export LCNs" option but then that just seems like a long way around of having a simple "update LCNs" tickbox in the scanning section...

    So you're watching KingOfSat to minimise the scanning and therefore minimise the LCN fixing after scanning?
    Exactly. If it's only one channel, or I already have a load of channels from the transponder of the channel(s) that need changing, I instead just manually input a new channel rather than rescan. This is also obviously annoying.
     
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    mm1352000

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    If channels have an LCN, rather than each channel source having an LCN (which seems silly), then it would be a bit easier.
    Well technically each channel source in MP is a channel in an STB, and as such they have their own LCNs. Not trying to justify the design (I agree that the LCN should be on the logical channel in MP) but there is probably a back-story on why things were done the way they were.

    But if this was the case, why couldn't it be listed and editable right there in the channel list (along with the name of the channel)? That'd make it SO much easier to edit both channel names and LCNs for most people.
    No reason at all necessarily.

    This still doesn't help when you rescan everything though, it'd still take absolutely ages. You could have an "import/export LCNs" option...
    When you say "rescan everything" do you mean starting with no channels in the DB (?)... because that doesn't make sense to me.
    You could use the existing import/export function to enable you to edit the LCNs in a text editor, which would probably be faster than working in the UI no matter what we do.

    ...but then that just seems like a long way around of having a simple "update LCNs" tickbox in the scanning section...
    If you add that, you may as well have an "update names" tick box as well. The line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise the number of settings can blow out very easily when you generalise that approach to the entire TV Server.

    Every single person that I talk to about scanning has a different idea of what they want. Some people want TV Server to behave like an STB: to pick up new channels without explicitly scanning and track channel movements and name changes etc. Other people want the ability to filter the scan results and choose which ones actually get added/updated. An alternative or addition to that is the idea that if a channel is deleted it should never be re-added by a scan. Other people want to add the ability to download channel lists by provider/country/region like we do for tuning details.

    At the end of the day we just can't please everyone but we do the best we can. When I next come to look at the scanning logic (which will probably be quite soon) I'll keep your feedback in mind. Like I said, the LCN patch that we're considering for MP 1.3b may stop the LCN from being updated in subsequent scans which would hopefully save you at least a little work.

    mm
     

    DragonQ

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    When you say "rescan everything" do you mean starting with no channels in the DB (?)... because that doesn't make sense to me.
    You could use the existing import/export function to enable you to edit the LCNs in a text editor, which would probably be faster than working in the UI no matter what we do.
    I mean when there's a lot of new channels - instead of scanning several transponders manually, it's easier to just rescan all transponders. But then that resets all of the LCNs which makes the job even longer...

    If you add that, you may as well have an "update names" tick box as well. The line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise the number of settings can blow out very easily when you generalise that approach to the entire TV Server.
    Names aren't reset right now though. It seems strange that LCNs are reset upon scanning but channel names aren't!

    How about this - the program stores the LCN of each new channel found in a scan in a database. Whenever a transponder is rescanned and existing channels are re-found, you could check whether the stored LCN in the database (from the last scan) matches the current LCN of the channel in TV-Server. If it does, then the user hasn't changed the LCN so the LCN found on the new scan can be set for that channel. If it doesn't match, then the user must've changed it manually at some point and we can assume they don't want the LCN changed.
     

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