Scanning errors, how can I prevent them? (Netherlands Ziggo 5555 Alkmaar)

Discussion in 'Television (MyTV frontend and TV-Server)' started by Lotsofjazz, September 5, 2016.

  1. Lotsofjazz
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    OWkee, I am a Mediaportal User for almost a decade now, so I think I know what I am doing, but none the less I am confused by what is happening to me recently.

    July 1, 2016 Ziggo changed the channel configuration considerably, so I changed the XML tuning parameters file accordingly (attached) per the information provided on some nerdy website forum Tweakers.net, by somebody who goes by the name of ArChie and is on the ball with this and keeps track of all the changes that Ziggo does now and then (way too often!!).



    I have tried the Tuning parameters that are provided by Mediaportal, but found out none of the Ziggo xml files is working properly, and after checking them, none is correct according the below website.. So that is why I created one myself (attached) and edit it if required, like after July 1 2016.

    https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/47444269#47444269

    BUT When I do a channel scan, it always happens that RTL 8 HD, National Geographic HD and a few others are found, EGP is working, but when I try to watch them it says Channel Not found or No PMT or whatever.. It does not play!.. But it does get the EGP data.

    Then, when I check the channel data in TV server setup tool>TV Channels> right click and then 'Edit'.. I find out that:

    1. Frequency is wrong
    2. NID is wrong (1536 where it should be 5555)
    3. Channel number is correct
    4. Transport Stream ID is correct
    5. Service ID is correct

    After manually correction according ArChie's list (see link above) all worked fine.

    Note that not all channels are mixed up, but quite a few.. of the about 10-12 channels I use to watch now and then, probably 3 or 4 were set to wrong frequencies and wrong NID.

    I Wonder how it is possible that however the xml tuning parameter file is correct (checked, double checked and checked it again) it seems to scan normally and finds all the channels I am looking for, that the frequencies and NID's are so mixed up.. But EGP is still working fine.

    Attached some TV server logs (Note I corrected some channels manually using the channel edit function in the TV server tool.. however this has corrected some channels I like to watch, it is not something I fancy to check for all 317 channels that I potentially have) and the xml tuning parameter file.

    For the HTPC config, see the system specs in my account profile..

    QUESTIONS:
    1. Is there a way to configure the tuning parameter xml file, so the correct frequency and NID are set during scanning and skip the channel configurations that do not match with the tuning parameter XML??
    2. When I delete the cache and current database, and perform a complete new channel scan, I noticed that some channels are "Updated" where they should be NEW, I cant figure out which were the UPDATED channels... Is it possible the scan does find the correct channel, frequency and all that, but that later on in the scan it is 'updated', because it finds a 'mirror' frequency with the same channel number, TS ID and Service ID?? If so, how to prevent the wrong channel frequency is set, is there a way to keep the correct one?
    3. Is there a way to skip the scanning procedure and import the list of channel parameters, like ArChies, into MP TV server directly (like setting all channels manually, but do this automatically?)
    Ok this is it for now, I may have some additional questions, but first things first.

    Thanks in advance!

    Marco
     

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  3. mm1352000
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    Hi Marco

    If our tuning parameters are incorrect, please correct them and submit the updates here:
    https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/forums/submit-epg-grabbers-and-tuningdetails.296/

    Thanks :)

    No big surprise here. EPG doesn't always only come from the same "frequency" (transport stream) as the channel itself. For example, some providers broadcast full EPG for all their channels in all transport streams. In that example case, only one working channel would be required to get full EPG for all channels.

    Thanks... but unfortunately these log files do not show any scanning. Therefore I can't determine what's going on, and it's not possible to answer your questions.

    So, please provide new log files showing a full scan.
    Please also provide a screenshot showing your scanning settings (ie. enable channel movement detection etc.).

    As above. Without at least log files that show a full scan, I can't see what's wrong, and so I can't know if it's possible to avoid or fix the problem.

    This part doesn't make sense to me.

    ...and nor can I without the corresponding log files. Sorry.

    Channel number is irrelevant. Relevant details are:
    • original network ID (ONID)
    • transport stream ID (TSID)
    • service ID (SID)
    ...but otherwise, the answer is yes.

    It completely depends on the circumstances. Can't give a better answer until you provide new log files.

    No.
     
  4. Lotsofjazz
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    OK, Lets make it a bit simpler.

    Because Ziggo had shuffled their channels around again, I have first checked and corrected the XML file again, however nothing in that file needed to be changed, only the channels have moved from one transport ID to the other, some new channels are added (Spike and ONS) and some have been removed (HBO for example).

    Source: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/49436347#49436347 (update of December 9, 2016)

    Then in TVServer Setup I DELETED all channels, closed TV Server, started MediaPortal, checked if no channels were there, all OK.
    I also DELETED all TV Server LOGS, so the ones added to this message are after the fresh scan.

    I scanned for new channels using my checked XML file (also added) last night.

    I got a few problems when trying to watch some channels today. However the XML file is 100% correct, somehow some channels are assigned to the wrong frequency and the channel number 1000 is added

    Example NPO 3 HD
    When trying to preview in TVserver Setup, after a minute or so, it comes back with error "No PMT found" Checking the channel details it has frequency 642750, which is wrong, the channel frequency should be 634750 but the Transport ID and Service ID were correct, also the Network ID is wrong (should be 5555 but it is 1536) but that seems not a problem.

    After setting the frequency and channel number manually correct, all works fine.
    I do not know why this happens, because the numbers in the XML file are all correct. 642750 is the frequency of the next transponder ID 2099.

    And this way I had to manually correct a few other channels that I watch, they are easily identified, because all have channel number 1000

    Looking at all the channels, about 60 channels have channel number 1000 (not counting the set top box 'channels' Samsung Humax etc), this does not mean they all not work but probably quite a few will not work... Again, I have no idea why this happens, signal strength and quality are 90-100% all the time, no errors (red lined) during scanning.

    What I found quite strange after the scanning was done, it tells me that 56 channels were "Updated" while there were NO channels at all present, in my logic there should only be NEW channels. (I deleted them all FIRST before the scanning procedure).. This number 56 comes awfully close to the number of channels that I counted with channel number 1000... Which again supports my suspicion that channels found in one transponder, are "found" again in a next transponder, and then assigned the wrong frequency. I realize the problem could be at Ziggo's end, that the channels that moved to a new frequency are not completely REmoved at the old frequency, but then again, why is TVserver using the wrong one?

    TVServer Logs added, this should include my manual changes as well. also some screenshots you asked for.

    I hope you can identify what is going on and can work out a solution, because it is quite annoying to manually change some of the channels after each channel scan I do, and Ziggo tends to change things a lot, maybe 5-6 times a year!

    Thanks in advance!

    Fresh new scan but 56 updated.JPG TVserver scanning settings.jpg
     

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    Last edited: January 7, 2017
  5. Lotsofjazz
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    I just found out also other channels with correct channel numbers were assigned a wrong frequency... so not only with channel 1000.

    Some were in the same transport ID list as channels I had found earlier and were assigned the same wrong frequency.. Like NPO 1 HD and NPO 2 HD, TS ID 2098, wrong frequency was 642750, where it should be 634750.. the same as I had found for NPO 3 HD.

    Something else I found is that when playing some channels the first time it takes a long time to respond, then a black screen comes up and only audio is heard. Closing TV by pressing the STOP button confirm closing tv server and then restart the same channel, it works fine.
     
  6. mm1352000
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    Thanks for the report :)

    It's easiest to discuss specific problems, so let's go with your example of NPO 3 HD.

    The log file shows that TV Server found it first on the correct frequency:
    [2017-01-06 23:18:00,838] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - dvbc: Scan:DVBC:tv: Freq:634750 ONID:-1 TSID:-1 SID:-1 PMT:0xFFFFFFFF FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    ...
    [2017-01-06 23:18:01,022] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Scan: tuner locked:True signal:100 quality:100
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 0) 0x600 0x832 0x4BC9 0x7D0 NPO 1 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo NPO 1 HD Freq:634750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19401 PMT:0x7D0 FTA:True LCN:925 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 1) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCA 0x8FC NPO 2 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:ZiggoL NPO 2 HD Freq:634750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19402 PMT:0x8FC FTA:True LCN:926 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 2) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCD 0xC80 NPO 3 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo NPO 3 HD Freq:634750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19405 PMT:0xC80 FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,026] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 3) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCF 0xED8 Comedy Central Extra type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,042] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo Comedy Central Extra Freq:634750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19407 PMT:0xED8 FTA:False LCN:29 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,042] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Scan Got 4 from 4 channels

    ...but then it was also found with identical parameters (ONID, TSID, SID) on the next frequency too:
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,163] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - dvbc: Scan:DVBC:tv: Freq:642750 ONID:-1 TSID:-1 SID:-1 PMT:0xFFFFFFFF FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    ...
    [2017-01-06 23:18:06,318] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Scan: tuner locked:True signal:100 quality:100
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,320] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 0) 0x600 0x832 0x4BC9 0x7D0 NPO 1 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,322] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo NPO 1 HD Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19401 PMT:0x7D0 FTA:True LCN:925 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,324] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 1) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCA 0x8FC NPO 2 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,326] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:ZiggoL NPO 2 HD Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19402 PMT:0x8FC FTA:True LCN:926 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,328] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 2) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCD 0xC80 NPO 3 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,330] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo NPO 3 HD Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19405 PMT:0xC80 FTA:True LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,332] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 3) 0x600 0x832 0x4BCF 0xED8 Comedy Central Extra type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,333] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo Comedy Central Extra Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2098 SID:19407 PMT:0xED8 FTA:True LCN:29 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,335] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 4) 0x600 0x833 0x4BDD 0x7D0 Spike type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,337] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo Spike Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19421 PMT:0x7D0 FTA:True LCN:927 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,339] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 5) 0x600 0x833 0x4BDE 0x8FC RTL 8 HD type:19
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,341] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo RTL 8 HD Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19422 PMT:0x8FC FTA:False LCN:934 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,342] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 6) 0x600 0x833 0x4BE1 0xC80 Comedy Central Family type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,344] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo Comedy Central Family Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19425 PMT:0xC80 FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,346] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 7) 0x600 0x833 0x4BE3 0xED8 RTL Lounge type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,348] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo RTL Lounge Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19427 PMT:0xED8 FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,350] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 8) 0x600 0x833 0x4BE4 0x1004 TVE type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,351] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo TVE Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19428 PMT:0x1004 FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,353] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - 9) 0x600 0x833 0x4BE5 0x1130 Ziggo Sport Golf type:1
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,354] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Found: DVBC:tv:Ziggo Ziggo Sport Golf Freq:642750 ONID:1536 TSID:2099 SID:19429 PMT:0x1130 FTA:False LCN:10000 SymbolRate:6900 Modulation:Mod256Qam
    [2017-01-06 23:18:41,355] [Log ] [13 ] [INFO ] - Scan Got 10 from 10 channels


    The only ways I could explain such a result is:
    1. Ziggo error (eg. service description table for 634750 kHz also included in 642750 kHz transport stream).
    2. Tuner error (eg. tuner supplies a few packets from the previously tuned transport stream shortly after tuning the new frequency, and by chance those few packets included the service description table).

    I can understand why you'd find this strange. Co-incidentally, NPO 3 HD is a perfect example for explaining why this happens. :)

    TV Server identifies DVB-C channels according to DVB specifications: by the combination of ONID + TSID + SID (or just ONID + SID if you enable the channel movement detection option). When TV Server first found NPO 3 HD (ONID = 1536, TSID = 2098, SID = 19405) at frequency 634750 kHz, there was no other channel with the same identifiers in the database. Therefore it was counted as new. Then when 642750 kHz was scanned, TV Server found the previous record (from 634750 kHz) with the same ONID + TSID + SID combination in the DB. Therefore the previous record was updated with the new frequency, and it was counted as an update.
     
  7. Lotsofjazz
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    Thanks!.. it confirms what I thought that happens, and I think it is Ziggo's fault, they are notorious in how sloppy they are solving technical issues.

    But isn't there a way that MP can ignore channel finds that are not in line with the tuning detail xml file... Like with NPO 3 HD, the new frequency does not belong to the transponder ID.

    BTW, I see NPO 1 HD, NPO 2 HD and Comedy Central HD are also found in the wrong frequency.
     
  8. mm1352000
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    The tuning detail XML file doesn't say that the TSID for 634750 should be 2098 and the TSID for 642750 should be 2099, so I can't see any way that TV Server could know/recognise this.
     
  9. Lotsofjazz
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    Oh, yes of course... I just added the TSID as reference for myself, making checking the XML file easier...

    BUT if a TSID is available, shouldn't there be a way to take advantage of that and prevent problems like this?
     
  10. mm1352000
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    Yes, in this very specific case. The problem can be recognised that way this time... but as you already said, Ziggo is notoriously sloppy, and it's possible they'll make a different mistake next time.
     
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