Some Canal Digital HDTV channels reported as scrambled on TT S2-3200 (2 Viewers)

[MPM]

I switched from DVB-C to DVB-S few weeks ago and installed S2-3200. Had some issues initially but after updating drivers and installing the latest version of SAF the system has been very stable. However...

I cannot watch all HDTV channels. A number of HD channels works flawlessly (SVT1, SVT2, TV4, TV5, Animal Planet), but there is a group of channels that I cannot watch at all and always get the "Channel is scrambled" message. Channels that appear to be scrambled are TV3, BBC, Discovery, History and Eurosport.

All channels work perfectly fine with Canal Digital's receiver so cable/signal and card cannot be the issue...

I have noticed that all "scrambled" channels are on the same transponder - 12015. Google reveals that a lot of people are having issues with this transponder but the problems are typically about not being able to find/tune the channels. My S2-3200 finds them without problems during the scan...

I have attached two log files showing clean service start, trying to manually start timeshifting on one of the "scrambled" channels and then starting tineshifting on one of "working channels".

All help is much appreciated!

 

[mm1352000]

Hello MPM

Thanks for the logs - they're very clean.
Unfortunately they don't show very much.
The symbol rate of that 12015H transponder - 30000 ks/s - is quite high for DVB-S2. The demodulators in some older DVB-S2 tuners (like the TT S2-3200) cannot support such symbol rates properly. Newer DVB-S2 tuners can support up to 45000 ks/s.
If you check the official data sheet for the card (-->link<--), you'll see that TechnoTrend specify the supported symbol rate range for DVB-S2 as 10000 to 30000 ks/s.
Issues are also reported under linux, which suggests the hardware or firmware of the card may not be capable of handling that symbol rate.
I say this so that you are aware that you are driving the tuner right on the limitation of its capabilities.

If you check the information in the Linux TV wiki -->here<--, you'll see that they suggest to scan the channels on such transponders with symbol rate 29999 instead of 30000. I don't know if that would work for the Windows driver, but I think it is worth a shot.

So I suggest you try a manual scan with the following parameters:
frequency = 12015000 kHz
symbol rate = 29999 ks/s
polarisation = horizontal
modulation = 8 PSK
inner FEC rate = 3/4
pilot = on
roll-off = 0.35

mm

 

[MPM]

Thanks for the reply mm, that explains it! Also, I now understand the practical application of "better specifications" that you mentioned in https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/please-recommend-a-dvb-s2-card-cd-sweden.109447/

I did try a manual scan with 29999 but it didn't make any difference. Thanks for the hint anyway!

A minute ago I stumbled upon this (somewhat older) thread that identifies the CAM as cause of the problem:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/problems-with-tt-s2-3200-for-dvb-s2.76336/

And I realized that my CAM is fairly outdated, bought few years ago for use with comhem (DVB-C):
http://www.smardtv.com/index.php/products/for-television-and-set-top-boxes/eurocam-conax

Do you think it's worth a giving a shot to newer CAS 7 CAM that is mentioned in the thread:
http://www.misco.se/product/product.aspx?P_ItemId=129407&SearchString=dilog&SL_SectionID=10856

Or would log files look differently if it was a CAM issue?

Thanks,
MPM

 

[mm1352000]

A minute ago I stumbled upon this (somewhat older) thread that identifies the CAM as cause of the problem:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/problems-with-tt-s2-3200-for-dvb-s2.76336/

And I realized that my CAM is fairly outdated, bought few years ago for use with comhem (DVB-C):
http://www.smardtv.com/index.php/products/for-television-and-set-top-boxes/eurocam-conax

Do you think it's worth a giving a shot to newer CAS 7 CAM that is mentioned in the thread:
http://www.misco.se/product/product.aspx?P_ItemId=129407&SearchString=dilog&SL_SectionID=10856

Or would log files look differently if it was a CAM issue?

Absolutely - the CAM could possibly also be the cause.
CAMs are like mini-PCs in some ways. If their "CPU" is too weak they decrypt less channels simultaneously (or maybe can only decrypt one channel), and they may have problems decrypting channels with high bit-rates (or channels from high bit-rate transponders).
Your log files do look like the ones in that other thread, but at this point I can't be sure whether the CAM or the tuner or both are at fault.

So how can we decide: CAM or tuner.
Well fortunately it looks like there are some FTA channels on a similar transponder that you may be able to test with (to eliminate the CAM or tuner).
Can you receive the FTA channels on 12092H? "Mooz Dance HD", "TV Sonce" and "Inedit TV".
Make sure you test with the CAM inserted and removed to see if it makes a difference.

mm

 

[MPM]

Thanks again for a quick reply mm!

I don't have TV Sonce, but both Mooz Dance and Inedit TV work perfectly fine with CAM inserted.
So, I guess it's a tuner then...

Well... I'm now more comfortable with DVB-S so next step will be DD or TBS card which shouldn't have issues with 30000.
Will have to survive without those HD channels for a while...

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks again for a quick reply mm!

No problem.

I don't have TV Sonce, but both Mooz Dance and Inedit TV work perfectly fine with CAM inserted.
So, I guess it's a tuner then...

Just the opposite. I would say it is the CAM.
The tuning parameters for that transponder are exactly the same as the other one that carries the encrypted channels that you want.
If the tuner can tune the FTA channels on the test transponder then surely it only leaves the CAM as the culprit?

 

[MPM]

Of course, how silly of me! One should never do any testing right after coming home from work, the brain is left behind...
I guess I was thinking the CAM is inside and channels are working so it cannot be the CAM. But of course, these are FTA and have nothing to do with the CAM...

Anyway, that's really a good news as the CAM is cheap compared to the tuner so I'll order a new one and test. Thanks again!

 

[MPM]

I'm happy to confirm that it was all about the CAM. Installed a new one today and all channels work flawlessly... As a bonus, responsivness (primarily channel switching time) is better too. Thanks for help and advices!

 

[mm1352000]

Excellent!
Just for future reference, could you mention the CAMs that you have, and which one worked.
Thx!

 

[MPM]

Sure!

CAM that works well with the symbol rate 30000 and is generally very fast is Dilog Conax CAS 7.0


CAM that doesn't work with the symbol rate 30000 and is generally somewhat slower is SmarDTV Conax 4.0


Thanks again for all the help!