User experience with AMD 780G and MediaPortal (1 Viewer)

[KRA]

1. Flickering GUI - MP code issue, nothing to do with motherboard / chipset / onboard GFX
2. Deinterlacing - CPU issue (you need HT3 capable CPU), nothing to do with motherboard / chipset / onboard GFX, it can HT3
3. DXVA Hardware Acceleration - driver and codec issue, nothing to do with motherboard / chipset / onboard GFX
4. I cannot reproduce this wierd problem, maybe Windows config issue

my experience is:
to 2. after Upgrade to Phenom picture quality of 1080i like a dream
to 3. works superb with pdvd7.3 codec+update, CCC 8.9, EVR Vista (Phenom X3 CPU usage ca. 5-15 %, automatically downclocked to 1000 MHz with vCore 1.05 V through cool&quiet)

so forget the title of the tread!

As I made the BOLD statement in the first place I have to reply to this.

first off, I did not say it was a bad chipset, I said it was a bad combo with MP, and nothing you say changes that.

1. yes this is a MP issue, it happens with all ATi cards, but still if you think about buying such a mobo you shlould know about that.
2. This issue is not limited to MP, but since people who makes htpc tend to like cpu that run cool, the BE/E sieries cpu is often the choice. No BE/E series HT3 capable cpu. And all reviews I've seen say how great this board is for Video and HD, yet it isn't true unless you have a phenom cpu! Some reviews also point out that this mobo will play x264 HD with underclocked sempron, wich is not the case within MP !!
3. I've tried several different codecs and drivers, newer got HDTV (1080i) to playback fine in MP, playback in WMP works fine.
4. I think this issue may be related to dual monitor setup, but not sure.

I never got to try the Catalyst 8.9, because I got myself a 4650, I thought it was a better choice than to get a phenom. The flickering gui problem is greatly reduced with the 4650, although not completely gone.

 

[Spooky]

2. This issue is not limited to MP, but since people who makes htpc tend to like cpu that run cool, the BE/E sieries cpu is often the choice. No BE/E series HT3 capable cpu. And all reviews I've seen say how great this board is for Video and HD, yet it isn't true unless you have a phenom cpu! Some reviews also point out that this mobo will play x264 HD with underclocked sempron, wich is not the case within MP !!

You are wrong. You can still view 720p and 1080p content just fine with a Sempron CPU. The problem is deinterlacing, and many reviews just test 1080p content of Blu-Ray discs, not 1080i from television for example.

And you can always underclock and undervolt a Phenom.

3. I've tried several different codecs and drivers, newer got HDTV (1080i) to playback fine in MP, playback in WMP works fine.

As I said before, 1080i with adaptive deinterlacing worked fine for me on my Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H with Hardware Acceleration through the PowerDVD 8 codec.

 

[KRA]

Spooky,
yes you can view HD/x264 interlaced content with a sempron, but only with bob or weave de-interlace. (unless you run 800x600, but then HD isn't really any point anyways)

I also had problems with 720p material, a) graphics corruption in MP and windows ! b) black screen and only sound. (I had the same issues with Interlaced content) So the problems with HD is not only limited to de-interlacing. I played the same interlace and progressive clips in Mediaportal, MPC and WMP, only Mediaportal had problems.

From previous experiences I like to run my hardware on stock settings! It may work fine today, it may work fine in 3 months, but about 18 months and it didn't work anymore for me!

No way in hell do you get HA of 1080i with adaptive deinterlace, unless you have a HT3 cpu. You may think you have it, and it's set in CCC, but it's not working!

EDIT: Regarding the problem with HDTV, MP was only capable to display about 30fps (out of 50) one theory I didn't check out was the impact memory modules have. I use 4-4-4-12 PC6400 memory. But since it worked fine with WMP/MPC I didn't think it was worth testing. I think the MP gui is the problem, and it's too taxing on the system.

 

[Spooky]

No way in hell do you get HA of 1080i with adaptive deinterlace, unless you have a HT3 cpu. You may think you have it, and it's set in CCC, but it's not working!

Well, tell me how to check it conclusively . All I know is, that 1080i channels won't work at all, when I set Deinterlacing to Motion Adaptive in CCC and it will work with 50 FPS when I set Deinterlacing do Adaptive in CCC. Note again that I used a fresh Windows installation and Catalyst 8.9 right from the start, without any registry tweaks. Adaptive and Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing where available in the CCC right from the start.

And the only Problem I have right now with Hardware Acceleration is, that I get only 33 FPS most of the time on progressive channels and this seems to be a problem of the PowerDVD codec and certainly not a Problem of the Radeon HD 3200 of a 780G motherboard (also happens with a Radeon HD 4870 on a completely different system for example).


I never had any of the other problems you described, but I guess you are running Windows Vista, since you talked about EVR?

EDIT: Regarding the problem with HDTV, MP was only capable to display about 30fps (out of 50) one theory I didn't check out was the impact memory modules have. I use 4-4-4-12 PC6400 memory. But since it worked fine with WMP/MPC I didn't think it was worth testing. I think the MP gui is the problem, and it's too taxing on the system.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. As I described in my thread, this mostly happens when I bring up the Mini-EPG in fullscreen mode and it always happens when I am not entering/activating the TV directly in fullscreen. But then I had one single occassion where the same thing happened in MPCHC (while using the PowerDVD 8 codec), so I am not so sure about that anymore.

 

[KRA]

I'm not 100% sure, but I pretty sure that 50 fps = bob deinterlace. You can identiy BOB by looking at this lines, logos etc. stuff that don't move. They will move up en down or "flicker" i the edge.

 

[mironicus]

I have switched to a Phenom 9750 (undervolted to 1,1 Volt with 2,4 GHz) and I don't have a problem anymore. Video quality is improved and the Vista Speed index rises from 3,4 to 4,2 for graphics. There is no need for a power hungry video card anymore - unless you want to play games. Even with Aero on you'll have vector adaptive deinterlacing up to 1080p.

You'll have to switch Aero on to have no jitter in Mediaportal and smooth HDTV playback of TV channels with DXVA.

 

[Spooky]

I'm not 100% sure, but I pretty sure that 50 fps = bob deinterlace. You can identiy BOB by looking at this lines, logos etc. stuff that don't move. They will move up en down or "flicker" i the edge.

Uhm, well, I don't know... I set deinterlacing to BOB in CCC, but I didn't notice any flickering etc. on the ANIXE HD logo for example (or the stuff that is shown in the lower right corner in the show right now).

When I set it to Adaptive, the ANIXE HD logo looks much smoother, but flickers at the end of the arcs. Also the text in the lower right corner flickers.

As far as I know BOB isn't supposed to be flickering, it's supposed to look blocky, due to line doubling, which it did, when i set it to BOB. And as far as I know, flickering at edges like the end of the arcs of the ANIXE logo is a drawback of Adaptive Deinterlacing and is prevented with Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing (which I can't use). You can see that in the ATi demo videos too.

 

[KRA]

Even with Aero on you'll have vector adaptive deinterlacing up to 1080p.

1080p doesn't ned deinterlace, hence the P - Progressive. No need to deinterlace something that isn't interlaced.

As far as I know BOB isn't supposed to be flickering, it's supposed to look blocky, due to line doubling, which it did, when i set it to BOB. And as far as I know, flickering at edges like the end of the arcs of the ANIXE logo is a drawback of Adaptive Deinterlacing and is prevented with Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing (which I can't use). You can see that in the ATi demo videos too.

Line doubling takes the lines of each interlaced field (consisting of only even or odd lines) and doubles them, filling the entire frame. This results in the video having a frame rate identical to the field rate, but each frame having half the vertical resolution, or resolution equal to that of each field that the frame was made from. Line doubling prevents combing artifacts but causes a noticeable reduction in picture quality since each frame displayed is doubled and really only at the original half field resolution. This is noticeable mostly on stationary objects since they bob up and down. This technique is also called bob deinterlacing for this reason. Line doubling retains horizontal and temporal resolution at the expense of vertical resolution and bobbing artifacts on stationary and slower moving objects. A variant of this method discards one field out of each frame, halving temporal resolution.

Line        Progressive signal (25fps):         Interlace signal (50fps):               
              1 frame    2 frame                       1 frame    2 frame
1            ----------   ------------                    -----------
2            ----------   ------------                                   -------------
3            ----------   ------------                    -----------
4            ----------   ------------                                   -------------

I believe BOB rather than combine frame 1 and 2 to make 25fps progressive signal, either a) on frame one copy line 1 to line 2, and line 3 to line 4, and on frame 2 copy line 2 to line 1 and line 4 to line 3. This would result in 50 fps. The other option is to ditch frame 2,4,6 etc.. this results in 25fps and half resolution.

once again, I'm not 100% about everything here.

 

[Spooky]

I know how it works, but I don't know yet what is actually going on on the 780G system, since nothing bob's up and down (e.g. the logo) when I choose bob in CCC and since I get flickering along small edges but other than that improved picture quality with Adaptive deinterlacing.

 

[KRA]

Well, on my computer it's no problem to see the flickering with BOB, it may be easier to see on SDTV though.