why are the requirements so high?!?! (3 Viewers)

[jdiffend]

The problem here is that some people want to use an old machine (i.e. no cost) to run Media Portal.

I have an old 550MHz K6-2 machine (100MHz FSB?) and it's not enough to playback video and sound with media player on a Radeon 7000 (probably on AGP 2X). And that's WITHOUT Media Portal running. It also takes forever to rip and encode MP3's and DAYS to rip and convert DVD with Auto Gordian Knot.

My 1.33GHz Athlon with 266MHz FSB is pleanty fast for Media Portal. I've played video on it with a Radeon 7000 (AGP 4X?) and it worked just fine. I currently use a Radeon 9600se (AGP 8X) and it's noticably faster, plays DirectX9 games correctly and still doesn't require a fan (no noise) to cool the card.

You can find Sempron CPUs (2200+) around $46 (same as a Duron 1.8GHz), socket A motherboards under $45 (some older ones are even in the 20's) and the Saphire Radeon 9600se cards start at around $45 with TV out.

I just built my parents a new computer with a Soyo SY P4RC350 mobo (integrated ATi grapics), retail Intel 2.4GHz Celeron D with fan, 512MB RAM, a quiet Antec case with 300 watt power supply, etc... for $220.

Geeze... spend a weekend or two cleaning snow from people's driveways, mowing lawns, laying sod or something and build a decent machine instead of badgering the developers because your machine is too slow!

 

[xenon2000]

The problem here is that some people want to use an old machine (i.e. no cost) to run Media Portal.

I have an old 550MHz K6-2 machine (100MHz FSB?) and it's not enough to playback video and sound with media player on a Radeon 7000 (probably on AGP 2X). And that's WITHOUT Media Portal running. It also takes forever to rip and encode MP3's and DAYS to rip and convert DVD with Auto Gordian Knot.

quote]

You completely miss the point. MP is great, but needs optimization and discussion in the development section is the perfect place to discuss valid improvments such as code optimization.

And I use a 500mhz laptop with XP Pro on it with only a 2x AGP onboard video for my digital frame. And if you read my posts on this thread; you would see that I have had no slow problems with ANY playback of videos, MP3s, slideshows, direct X games, etc. And it also doesn't take me forever to rip and encode MP3 and I don't do DVD converting because that would obviously take a ton more time and that isn't what I am using MP for on my 500mhz digital frame. I am sorry if your setup on your 550Mhz computer is so terribly slow. But it's not on my 500Mhz laptop frame. I use Window Media Player 10 in XP Pro SP2 on my frame. And I use the default image viewer, slideshow screensaver, Direct X 9.0c, and have no issues at all. And plenty fast. Heck I can even do several things at once on it. I have been doing so for a long time too. So I am sorry it doesn't or hasn't worked out for you.

But it's not that a 500mhz computer can't handle these simple tasks, heck Meedio runs and loads super fast on my 500mhz laptop, it's because MP isn't optimized and is a CPU hog. It can be improved, and even on my AMD 2000 HTPC on the TV, I would rather not have 30% cpu going to just having MP idle.

Again, I am sorry you have such poor performance on your 550mhz.

 

[jdiffend]

I didn't miss anything and I don't care if my 550MHz machine has "such poor performance" because I RETIRED IT YEARS AGO! (it was one of the first motherboards with DMA66 IDE support)

I'm not saying MP doesn't need optimisation... taking that much CPU time when it should be idle *IS* just wrong. But there is a HUGE difference between supporting 500MHz and 1GHz. As soon as you say "requires 500MHz CPU" you're going to start getting people that whine because it doesn't work on THEIR 500MHz cpus. However, it would be pretty safe to say it should work fine on a 1GHz machine.

Eventually I'm sure someone will rewrite the loop that's eating cpu cycles (what? is someone polling instead of waiting for input or a timer through the OS?) but making it a priority and trying to support every CPU down to 500MHz when new machines that will work for sure are so cheap? No way. There are a lot of things I'd rather have first.

I will say that once this gets fixed the CPU usage difference should be pretty dramatic if it's done right.

 

[Frodo]

Like i said, performance tuning is something which I find very important
I'm sure we can increase MP's performance and thats the goal we have set for the beta 2 release
However, the system requirements for MP wont change. MP will be needing
a decent PC and 1.4GHz is really the low-end of the market today
Also MP will need a directx 8/9 card with 64-128MB ram.

frodo

 

[xenon2000]

Like i said, performance tuning is something which I find very important
I'm sure we can increase MP's performance and thats the goal we have set for the beta 2 release
However, the system requirements for MP wont change. MP will be needing
a decent PC and 1.4GHz is really the low-end of the market today
Also MP will need a directx 8/9 card with 64-128MB ram.

frodo

I guess I will continue to use Meedio on the digital media frame (laptop 500mhz inside 16x20 picture frame on wall).

I look forward contining to use MP on my AMD 2000 HTPC.

I also hope that MP will be able to keep up with the speed of comparible media software that currently cost money.

Thanks for clarifing the goals of MP. Though I was hoping that MP would be a more versatile platform. I am just surprised due to how fast XP and meedio are on a 500mhz laptop with 2x onboard AGP video.

I am just not prepared to spend $1000 on a new laptop to rip it apart for a custom frame like the one I have now. Especially since I know 500mhz is plenty for slideshows, MP3s, and Divx AVIs. Which is what my media frame is all about.

MP is still a great opensource project and I look forward to it's continued progress. Thanks again.

 

[htpcman]

@ Frodo

Thanks for your comments on the speed issues. Regarding resolutions I would like to point out the following:

- Flat screen TFT TVs in the 26"~30" range will fall below €1000 within this year. Already some discount stores offer certain deals for €999,--

- Most of these displays have a High Definition (HD) 720p native resolution of 1280x720 pixels and DVI or analog VGA inputs.

- They also have component inputs for HD.

These displays will become very popular within the next 5 years and will replace normal CRT TV sets. Therefore, it would be a good idea to make MP compatible with this sort of display. TV sets with native resolutions of 720x576 will slowly dissappear from the market.

The same goes for projectors I regularly use a loaned JVC DLA-SX21 to watch HD. This device has a native resolution of 1400x1050 and provides superb quality. Again projectors with resolutions much higher than standard TV are becoming more and more affordable.

Therefore it would be nice if development would not be centered on the TV native resolution.

by the way for the HD playback setup I currently have to drag my main PC (P4 2.8 GHz) to the living room since the Celeron 1300 based htpc is not fast enough to play HD. Therefore I am planning to upgrade my PC in the living room to a P4 also pretty soon. But from my tests run on the existing P4 machine I still think there is room for improvement. regarding speed.

Please don't get me wrong I am planning to stick with MP for a long time and I like it very much. I am just asking to see things from different perspectives to get the best possible application.

Cheers

htpcman

 

[xenon2000]

I agree, HDTV will become very affordable and popular within the next 5 years as you stated. And PCs are only getting cheaper and cheaper.

I think MP is definately moving in the right direction for HD content from PC to flat displays.

I first posted this thread because of my search for the perfect media portal on my 500 mhz custom picture frame. Which has become a very popular item in my TV-less family room that we often entertain guests adjacent to the dinning room.

Obviously this was never the intent of MP, but it made me realize how much CPU it used compared to other MP-like apps.

I look forward to the opensource progress that MP will make into the HD and widescreen content of the future.

I will re-begin my quest for an MP-like app for the picture frame and will continue to use and enjoy MP on my HTPC.

I am glad that most of the comments in this thread were focused on the discussion of CPU processing optimazation. And to also help define the main intent of the future of MP. I don't expect such a young application to be perfectly coded and I am glad that people are upfront enough to admit imperfections and to take comments constructively.

Great discussion people. Thanks again.

 

[Frodo]

i didn't say that MP is centered for tv's ???
I just gave a tip that you dont need 1024x879 on a television
and i know htat plasma/crt are gonna replace tv's in the next years
Its definitly something we take in account when developing mp
I think somebody was even working on a high resolution skin

frodo

 

[jdiffend]

I am just not prepared to spend $1000 on a new laptop to rip it apart for a custom frame like the one I have now. Especially since I know 500mhz is plenty for slideshows, MP3s, and Divx AVIs. Which is what my media frame is all about.

Exactly my point... you don't want to spend the money. However... given the fact that it's in a custom framed setup... I can understand why you want to continue to use it.

BTW, since you probably don't need batteries, could use your existing hard drive and you already have XP it shouldn't cost $1000.
A Desknote is around $500. http://www.tekstation.com/pd_amd_desk.cfm

 

[xenon2000]

specs and comments

I am just not prepared to spend $1000 on a new laptop to rip it apart for a custom frame like the one I have now. Especially since I know 500mhz is plenty for slideshows, MP3s, and Divx AVIs. Which is what my media frame is all about.

Exactly my point... you don't want to spend the money. However... given the fact that it's in a custom framed setup... I can understand why you want to continue to use it.

BTW, since you probably don't need batteries, could use your existing hard drive and you already have XP it shouldn't cost $1000.
A Desknote is around $500. http://www.tekstation.com/pd_amd_desk.cfm

I did spend very little on my TV based "desktop" PVR box. Way less than $500 for an AMD 2000 with 512Megs. So I already have a decent desktop PVR box with tuner and hardware MPEG2 encoder running at my TV with very quiet fans. And am very happy with it's performance for way less than $500 and I don't mind spending money for desktop hardware that I can change often, etc.I have made 2 digital frames now using 500mhz laptops and will be making a 3rd one soon. Using XP and Meedio along with 54G PCMCIA cards, I have made very nice and fast digital picture frames. I watch streaming Divx videos, play MP3s, watch slideshows, track the weather, get RSS news feeds, background anti-virus and spyware protection, and ocassionally check email and browsed the net, but not often since it requires me to stand close to the frame in order to see the text well on it's 14" screen.

So I am very happy with the digital picture frames that cost me about $500 in parts and my time to build. I am making a pictoral site on how I build them in case anyone here is also interested.

I was just hoping that one day MP might go on my frames since while Meedio works fast and is pretty nice, it's not open source and it's configuration is setup kinda lame.

My setups:

Workstation: 1 years old now, not the fastest computer, but definately not the worst setup either. about $1600
Antec P160 Performance One case - very quiet all aluminum.
Antec 480 TruePower Power Supply, also speed controls the case fans
Intel 3.0 HT CPU
Gigabyte 8KNXP motherboard - Dual Bios, Dual Power supply
1 Gig DDR3200 ram setup as Two sticks of 512 in dual channel mode.
Nvidia GeForce FX 5900 SE 128Meg video card
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
8x DVD+-R/W drive
40x CDRW drive
200 Gig drive C/D partitions
160 Gig Drive E/F partitions
120 Gig external Firewire/USB drive (on Firewire)
21" CRT - since I can't afford a 20+ inch LCD right now.
Setup right next to 19" CRT TV which I use to reference my video editing on to test gamma, cropping, to see how video DVD edits will look on a standard TV set since it differs on a computer display. Mainly use Sony Vegas 5 with the playpack output going to Firewire and TV out.

I use my desktop for everything and as my central media server, wired network to wireless 54g router.

PVR box: 2 weeks old and ultra cheap $332
Fry's special on sale
GQ model Q3111 for $180 which includes:
- AMD Athlon 2000+ CPU
- Nice little black tower case, 2 ext 5.25" bays, 2 ext 3.5" bays, 1 or 2 int 3.5" bay(s), 250W powersupply plenty for everthing I would be using.
- ECS 741GX-M motherboard, 3 PCI slots, 1 CNR slot with 56k modem (not using), 8X AGP slot, 333 DDR bus, UDMA133 IDE bus, onboard Video (not using, no TV out), onboard 6.1 sound (using via Digital Coax to 6.1 reciever for now since my 2 optical inputs are in use), 2 DDR slots, 2 gig max, using 512M for now. Onboard 10/100 LAN. 4 rear USB header, 4 USB for front on Motherboard
- 128 Meg DDR2700
- 40 gig harddrive
- black 52x CDROM
- black floppy drive
- black multimedia keyboard (Not using)
- Stereo Speakers (Not using, system plugged into 6.1 Onkyo Reciever)
- Ball Wheel mouse (Not using)

Then I added:
- $23 LiteON IR keyboard with builtin pointer and multimedia Keys from NewEgg (incredible range and no drivers needed, extra keys and mouse just work in XP.)
- Free Nvidia MX4000 AGP with TV out (would have bought $50 FX 5200 card, but this one I got free)
- Spare 512 Meg DDR2700 module (removed 128 Meg DDR to use in something else)
- $99 Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150, hardware MPEG2 encoding, nice IR remote, IR eye.
- $30 USB Microsoft 54g wireless adapter (also convienently black)
TOTAL $332 for a very decent and new PVR/media box.

Regular/daily laptop: about 2 years old $999
$999 eMachines M5310 widescreen laptop. First eMachines product ever owned, works great and never broken down.
- AMD 2400, 512M DDR, ATI video, 15.4 widescreen, CDRW/DVD, 54g wireless, 40gig HDD, firewire, Svideo out, dual display ability, 3-USB 2.0, super thin, etc. It's a great laptop and the cheapest new laptop I have ever bought with all the features it has.

Digital frame (can use any 16x20 standard frame) about $500 in parts total:
- 500Mhz Compaq M700 armada, 12gig HDD, a very thin, quiet and very sturdy laptop.
- currently 192 Megs of ram (64M builtin, 128M added)
- 54g wireless PCMCIA card $20
- PS2 port spliter for PS2 keyboard/mouse $8
- Same LiteON IR keyboard with built in pointer $23
- tiny amplified 2" driver speakers with 1" tweeters, built into the frame $20
- 4 port USB hub, since laptop only has 1 USB port, USB 1.1 since it's so old.
Frame works great, sounds great, and has been a very attractive and commented piece in the home.

I am not made of money, but I also know when to spend my money in the right places. 500mhz if plenty for a digital picture frame to do Music, Divx Video, and Pictures all over the wireless network. If anyone wants to see the custom frame, I can post a quick picture until I get the pictoral page completed.