A new Plugin for the Music-Part! Is it possible? (2 Viewers)

[emphatic]

No matter how a new plugin will look like.
to get those features of Moving pictures a database view is a must, which means all your files need to be tagged.
using a shares view should be the exceptin and it will show only rudimentary information.

above was not a language barrier.
the same thing comes up over and overagain. Not only from you but from a lot of other users.
there's constant nagging about missing features and at the same time they refuse to tag the music files correctly.

I understand you get tired of the nagging. Sorry. But AFAIK, Moving Pictures doesn't "read tags". It relies on .nfo files, correct filenames ("Artist name - track name - Track number.extension" or "Track number. Track name - Artist name.extension") and is also capable of using folders with multiple files inside as one item (1 movie, 1 album, should work just fine).

I've tried several apps that supposedly will "fix" my tags etc, but some of them actually did more harm than I cared to repair afterwards (including renaming of the filenames to something not even related to the artist). Using the "Moving Pictures way" with a database that operates without touching your files (i.e. saves the data in the database instead of rewriting your tags) will not harm any data. Perhaps these bad experiences has led me not to trust such apps (even if they're free and featured handily on this site) and therefore I wish to rid myself of this IMHO unnecessary tedious task of changing each and every tag. As long as you have your albums in folders it should be possible to have a filtering process that does all of this. This would of course be much easier if the folder contains an .nfo file.

Sorry if I come across as a nagging a-hole, I just want to bring my ideas of how such a plugin could handle music. I just get a bit concerned when the devs try to "enforce" what I we with our files.


Emph

Do you know that MPTagThat is able to tag "your kid's files" automatically via internet even if they are just named "unknown_x.mp3"? So basically you're not asking for a new music plugin but for some guidance about how to organize a large music collection efficiently?

How do I do this from inside MediaPortal? When does MPTagThat - the MediaPortal plugin appear in the repository?
Emph

 

[hwahrmann]

MPTagTHat is in the repository since February this year.
I've tagged several thousands of files, with no single one being corrupted.

cant be used fro inside MP. MP is mainly used using Remote control. don't see a way of easily tagging.

yes, we might be able to guess artist / album / Title from the folder structure. but why to handle a .nfo file?
There is a well supported tagging standard for music files available, which is not the case for movies.
So we rather use that, than inveting something else.

 

[joz]

I use the MP3Tag free tool my self and yes I also got it wrong from time to time but it can automate a lot if your getting into it.
I use that because MPTagThat is crashing immediatly after first load (should report that).

I think ID3 tags are a bit weird anyways. I think personally files should just hold what they have content wise and not all kinds of meta cr*p, PNG, RAW and others all do the same. I would rather see some generic format based on a single SQLite file somewhere but then the whole music industry has to change Especially cover art inside ID3 I think is weird, really weird and can blow up MP3 size.

But that's just me. I want to thank Spragleknas for his awesome pointers in this thread, I was one of those still using shares view because of various reasons (mostly ignorance). Now I got how it actually works it's sooooo much better, again.

p.s.
The devs should be asking why these questions popup constantly and try to find the reason. Then they can work on a solution, imo the reason is poor usability and even poorer documentation on the whole config aspect. Do not take this as some sort of attack, just wanted to point out what I think is the actual problem here.

 

[tourettes]

I think ID3 tags are a bit weird anyways. I think personally files should just hold what they have content wise and not all kinds of meta cr*p, PNG, RAW and others all do the same. I would rather see some generic format based on a single SQLite file somewhere but then the whole music industry has to change Especially cover art inside ID3 I think is weird, really weird and can blow up MP3 size.

Providing metadata within the file is the best thing since sliced bread (as Americans would say, I just can't stand the sliced bread ). It is just much more convient to have the metadata in the same file (of course only if there is a good standard and ID3 tag is pretty good one, althou not a perfect one).

That way it will be always traveling with the file and it is much more likely to get applications to conform the same standard. Just think when all aplications would be forced to use SQlite or anything similar to fetch the metadata. I cant see any good reason why there should be extra file to be stored the metadata (as it would have to be done on file basis as otherwise file copying etc. would be impossible, at least the metadata would be lost if files would be copied partly (as it is higly unlikele that OS would start to modify some odd SQLite DB files).

In short, it is the only correct way to handle metadata to allow it travel inside the file itself. And if the cover art is eating too much HD space you can always use it as external metadata (folder.jpg) per album folder (of course that assumes that you have some organization skills with the files itself and have stored one album per folder )

 

[tourettes]

No matter how a new plugin will look like.
to get those features of Moving pictures a database view is a must, which means all your files need to be tagged.
using a shares view should be the exceptin and it will show only rudimentary information.

above was not a language barrier.
the same thing comes up over and overagain. Not only from you but from a lot of other users.
there's constant nagging about missing features and at the same time they refuse to tag the music files correctly.

I understand you get tired of the nagging. Sorry. But AFAIK, Moving Pictures doesn't "read tags". It relies on .nfo files, correct filenames ("Artist name - track name - Track number.extension" or "Track number. Track name - Artist name.extension") and is also capable of using folders with multiple files inside as one item (1 movie, 1 album, should work just fine).

First of all, there aren't any good off file standard for storing music file metadata (and why would there be? ID3 tag is pretty good and universally supported).

If you did get your music collection from legal way you would get the tags sorted out pretty quickly. If not then people are really lazy when they start to complain about them being in need for doing some manual labor to get their stolen goods to be recognized (sorry, no clue where your music files are originated from, do not take this personally, but usually the missing tags are caused by two different things 1) pirated scene releases 2) lazy user doing CD ripping and doesn't bother to use any automatic internet metadata lookup).

• Legally doanloaded music contains tags almost everytime (iTunes for example, even when they use a bit ugly version of ID3 tag)
• Legally bought CDs ripped with proper CD extracing tool - metadata is queried based on the CD content and tags are inserted into file automatically during the process - only few, rare / not so mainstream band CDs aren't found in those online DBs

.nfo files are used for movie clips as they don't have good metadata support (MKV has, but it is not widely used, or even known).

 

[emphatic]

MPTagTHat is in the repository since February this year.
I've tagged several thousands of files, with no single one being corrupted.

cant be used fro inside MP. MP is mainly used using Remote control. don't see a way of easily tagging.

yes, we might be able to guess artist / album / Title from the folder structure. but why to handle a .nfo file?
There is a well supported tagging standard for music files available, which is not the case for movies.
So we rather use that, than inveting something else.

You didn't read my post right, I suggested that MPTagThat as a plugin would be nice to see in the repository. It's a standalone right now, and of course I'm aware of it's existence, how else could I have tried it?

I'm happy that you haven't had any issues with your app, but hey, you designed it, so it's only natural for you to use it. But you can't expect EVERYONE to understand how to use it, and until it's idiot safe (hey, I don't consider myself an idiot and I can't figure out how to use it) you will keep on receiving complaints about the music part of MediaPortal. I know there was a lot of badmouthing of the MyVideo part as well, but now that we have Moving Pictures as well as MyFilms, nobody asks for improvements (except perhaps mediainfo displayed while browsing as well as for the already implemented playback) anymore.

The thing you need to see past is your own knowledge of how music files are supposed to be stored/handled. Do you really think that most users of MediaPortal have more than 50% perfectly tagged music files? You need to stop seeing people who doesn't have perfectly tagged music as lesser beings. I have things I rather do than spend hours in front of my computer tagging my mp3 files.

As for .nfo files, this is for those who rather download their music instead of ripping them. I prefer someone else to rip my CD's as it's more convenient than ripping them myself.

Emph

If you did get your music collection from legal way you would get the tags sorted out pretty quickly. If not then people are really lazy when they start to complain about them being in need for doing some manual labor to get their stolen goods to be recognized (sorry, no clue where your music files are originated from, do not take this personally, but usually the missing tags are caused by two different things 1) pirated scene releases 2) lazy user doing CD ripping and doesn't bother to use any automatic internet metadata lookup).

• Legally doanloaded music contains tags almost everytime (iTunes for example, even when they use a bit ugly version of ID3 tag)
• Legally bought CDs ripped with proper CD extracing tool - metadata is queried based on the CD content and tags are inserted into file automatically during the process - only few, rare / not so mainstream band CDs aren't found in those online DBs

.nfo files are used for movie clips as they don't have good metadata support (MKV has, but it is not widely used, or even known).

Well, are the iTunes tags compatible with MediaPortal?

 

[userjan]

The only wish i would have for the music part would be nice (automated) backdrops of the artist playing.

I'm very picky about how i tag and put my music in the folder structure so navigation is no problem for me, ones you got your database messed up with a lot of incomplete info i can understand you get lost.

Few helpfull tools for me (maybe beter tools are around but this works for me):
TagRunner (scans folder/files and searchs for missing tag info)
MusicMatch Plus (use tags to create filenames or filenames to create tags, easy adjust large amounth of files)
MediaMonkey (ones your filenames are correct it can automaticly put tracks in the right folder structure like U/U2/POP/track.mp3)

But it still comes down to patience and concentration

On my phone i use a program called "Shazam", with this program you can record a short bit of music and then it will compair the recorded music with music in there database, it seems to be a pretty solid way of identifying song, maybe thats a way of "automated" tagging for the future, havent seen it for use on the pc yet tho.

 

[druid9]

all of that can be done in MPTagthat, with the possible exception of identifying when tags are not present.

 

[Spragleknas]

If yags are not present, then MPTagThat can create tags from filename

 

[hwahrmann]

MPTagTHat is in the repository since February this year.
I've tagged several thousands of files, with no single one being corrupted.

cant be used fro inside MP. MP is mainly used using Remote control. don't see a way of easily tagging.

yes, we might be able to guess artist / album / Title from the folder structure. but why to handle a .nfo file?
There is a well supported tagging standard for music files available, which is not the case for movies.
So we rather use that, than inveting something else.

You didn't read my post right, I suggested that MPTagThat as a plugin would be nice to see in the repository. It's a standalone right now, and of course I'm aware of it's existence, how else could I have tried it?

I'm happy that you haven't had any issues with your app, but hey, you designed it, so it's only natural for you to use it. But you can't expect EVERYONE to understand how to use it, and until it's idiot safe (hey, I don't consider myself an idiot and I can't figure out how to use it) you will keep on receiving complaints about the music part of MediaPortal. I know there was a lot of badmouthing of the MyVideo part as well, but now that we have Moving Pictures as well as MyFilms, nobody asks for improvements (except perhaps mediainfo displayed while browsing as well as for the already implemented playback) anymore.

The thing you need to see past is your own knowledge of how music files are supposed to be stored/handled. Do you really think that most users of MediaPortal have more than 50% perfectly tagged music files? You need to stop seeing people who doesn't have perfectly tagged music as lesser beings. I have things I rather do than spend hours in front of my computer tagging my mp3 files.

As for .nfo files, this is for those who rather download their music instead of ripping them. I prefer someone else to rip my CD's as it's more convenient than ripping them myself.

Emph

If you did get your music collection from legal way you would get the tags sorted out pretty quickly. If not then people are really lazy when they start to complain about them being in need for doing some manual labor to get their stolen goods to be recognized (sorry, no clue where your music files are originated from, do not take this personally, but usually the missing tags are caused by two different things 1) pirated scene releases 2) lazy user doing CD ripping and doesn't bother to use any automatic internet metadata lookup).

• Legally doanloaded music contains tags almost everytime (iTunes for example, even when they use a bit ugly version of ID3 tag)
• Legally bought CDs ripped with proper CD extracing tool - metadata is queried based on the CD content and tags are inserted into file automatically during the process - only few, rare / not so mainstream band CDs aren't found in those online DBs

.nfo files are used for movie clips as they don't have good metadata support (MKV has, but it is not widely used, or even known).

Well, are the iTunes tags compatible with MediaPortal?

Yes, iTunes tags are read and understood by MediaPortal.

Fact is: To have a good Music experience within MP, you need perfectly tagged files.
Several ppl have explained that already in this thread.
if you don't want to take the effort and tag your music collection, then you will always have this bad experience.

even if we would get information out of the folder structure, then i'm sure we will find a number of people who even don't have that and have everything in one folder.
Then we are most probably asked to look into the crystal ball.

As i said before, there are a lot of tools on the market that'll help you. I'm not asking you to use my own MPTagThat, there are ,i'm sure, better ones on the market.
The only thing i can tell you, that with MPTagThat it takes me around 30 seconds to fully tag an album, including covers and lyrics (which takes 10 secs longer then), which is stored as Artist\Album\Tracks.

Ok, it was taking me 1/2 year to get all of them tagged, while developing features for MPTagThat, which i found missing while tagging.
But now i can scratch my Music DB and do a Scan and all of my files are perfectly detected and useable inside the various DB Views.