Bug and Problem Reports (1 Viewer)

[Lehmden]

Hi.

In MiniEPG, I don't see what show comes up when I start one

This is a skin specific thing:

And if you ask me, it should be adopted in WMC to the way it is anywhere else in MP2.

So why should anybody use MiniEPG at all?

Because it delivers all information that is needed to choose a channel to watch now. More information reduces the overview and is not really a good thing in this case. It is simple and easy to use where the Multi EPG is much more complex. As this complexity is not needed for watching live TV it is very useful when you are planing schedules for recordings. And that's why in Multi EPG the playback did not start immediately. Personally I would "kill" the dev if one would be brave enough to touch this as I normally never watch live- TV at all. I want to decide what I watch whenever I want to. Really don't like others to decide this for me. Aside this I really hate the ads in between a running show. If I have recorded a show and watch it later when I have time and I'm in the matching mood for this show I easily can skip the commercials...

My shortcut to the EPG usually is the physical EPG button on my remote.

You can map this to MiniEPG easily, if you like...

 

[Lehmden]

simply make the close menu the first submenu in the settings section,

I'm no regular WMC- Skin user but iirr there is a menu editor so you can arrange the items (nearly) any way you like...

 

[astronaut]

Because it delivers all information that is needed to choose a channel to watch now. More information reduces the overview and is not really a good thing in this case. It is simple and easy to use where the Multi EPG is much more complex. As this complexity is not needed for watching live TV it is very useful when you are planing schedules for recordings. And that's why in Multi EPG the playback did not start immediately. Personally I would "kill" the dev if one would be brave enough to touch this as I normally never watch live- TV at all. I want to decide what I watch whenever I want to. Really don't like others to decide this for me. Aside this I really hate the ads in between a running show. If I have recorded a show and watch it later when I have time and I'm in the matching mood for this show I easily can skip the commercials...

I disagree with Lehmden, MultiEPG is not complex, and MiniEPG does not give all necessary information. In contrary, MultiEPG gives a very good overview including length of shows, something that MiniEPG does not give, but it is often a necessary information. Be that as it may, a compromise (so that nobody would need to get killed) is the following suggestion:
1. Leave MiniEPG as it is. I still think it is without benefit, but it doesn't hurt much.
2. Change MultiEPG in such a way that a press on OK button starts show (as in MP1 Titan), a press on info button pulls up the recording menu. I assume that this also can be done with left and right mouse button for desktop users. Following this solution, I can start TV without a second press from MultiEPG (something I simply can't do now), and Lehmden can select his/her programs for recording with one click (on another button than before, sorry for that, but still with one click).

You can map this to MiniEPG easily, if you like...

I'm no regular WMC- Skin user but iirr there is a menu editor so you can arrange the items (nearly) any way you like...

Telling people "you can adjust it yourself by doing this or that" might be alright for superspecial needs, but what I am talking about here are very basic functions like starting a TV show and shutting down the computer, and I am very confident that the average user would profit from the changes I suggest. From my point of view, the user interface is a crucial element of MP2. Making the user experience as good as possible "out of the box" for the average user without the hassle of changing a lot should be the main goal, right? And that's what I am arguing for.

 

[Lehmden]

2. Change MultiEPG in such a way that a press on OK button starts show (as in MP1 Titan), a press on info button pulls up the recording menu.

I'm strictly against this as told before. For those the Mini EPG is developed. This was designed specially for the "zapping guys" like you. If we do what you want, we sacrifice an option for a duplicate of another already existing one. And the Mini EPG will become obsolete (what is is not today). Only because this function is not exactly as you want it... A completely No Go.

Making the user experience as good as possible

With your proposal you will make the user experience much worse. We had a discussion about this topic some years ago and we decided in unison to do it as it is now. And it is proofed as a very good solution for all the years it is in daily usage now. As example I'm in the fourth year of using MP2 "productive" now as my main (only) HTPC software. There are lots of areas where I would improve the handling, but this here is definitely not such an area as it is working perfect. So don't expect this to be changed.

I am very confident that the average user would profit from the changes I suggest

And I'm absolutely sure they won't because you want to remove features many people uses daily without any need or sense.

very basic functions

What is a basic feature for you must not be a basic feature for everyone (not even for anybody else). To make most user happy is the only reason why such things like menu editors are developed. To hear now this is nonsense hurts a lot. If the menu is not like you want it, you can make your own without any programming knowledge. What else can you ask for? Excerpt for everyone has to make it exactly as you want it? Don't think this will happen.

 

[astronaut]

Some basic usability dialog principles are documented in ISO 9241-110 (see ISO 9241 - Wikipedia). Among these seven principles are for example "suitability for the task" and "conformity with user expectations".

Suitability for the task means that the dialogs should support the users in reaching their goals in an efficient way. MultiEPG does not allow the user to watch a channel in an efficient way, as an extra button press is needed.

Conformity with user expectations means that a dialog needs to be designed in a consistent way. One action in one dialog should not effect something different in another similar dialog. In MultiEPG and MiniEPG, two very similar screens, the same action (OK button) has different effects.

I'm strictly against this as told before. For those the Mini EPG is developed. This was designed specially for the "zapping guys" like you. If we do what you want, we sacrifice an option for a duplicate of another already existing one. And the Mini EPG will become obsolete (what is is not today). Only because this function is not exactly as you want it... A completely No Go.

I don't want to sacrifice an option, I want to add an shortcut to increase overall consistency and efficiency for users who want to watch TV. By following my suggestion, recording can be done as before by clicking one button (info). Watching TV can be done by clicking one button (OK), which is consistent with the action in MiniEPG. If there is a solution (today's MultiEPG) that is not as good as it could be, it's not a good solution to add another option with drawbacks (MiniEPG), instead the first solution should be improved as much as possible. And yes, sometimes an improvement in one area leads to another area becoming obsolete, but that is actually a good thing because it reduces complexity.

By the way, I have been using MP1 for over a decade, and I could always start a TV show directly with the OK button from the MultiEPG view.

With your proposal you will make the user experience much worse. We had a discussion about this topic some years ago and we decided in unison to do it as it is now. And it is proofed as a very good solution for all the years it is in daily usage now. As example I'm in the fourth year of using MP2 "productive" now as my main (only) HTPC software. There are lots of areas where I would improve the handling, but this here is definitely not such an area as it is working perfect. So don't expect this to be changed.

Sorry, but the solution is not perfect. I think it can be improved a lot for many users with one small change and for very little cost (users who want to start a recording would have to use a different button than before).

And I'm absolutely sure they won't because you want to remove features many people uses daily without any need or sense.

Again, I don't want to remove a feature, I want to add a shortcut. The feature to start a recording would still be available with the same number of clicks as today (on a different button). And I am not satisfied with the extra action to start TV and I am not satisfied with MiniEPG for reasons I have explained in detail, therefore there is a need, and I think that many other users also woud benefit.

What is a basic feature for you must not be a basic feature for everyone (not even for anybody else).

We are talking about watching TV and shutting down the computer in a software designed for watching TV (among other things). I find it hard to believe that these functions are not often used by many users of MP.

To make most user happy is the only reason why such things like menu editors are developed. To hear now this is nonsense hurts a lot. If the menu is not like you want it, you can make your own without any programming knowledge. What else can you ask for? Excerpt for everyone has to make it exactly as you want it? Don't think this will happen.

I did not say that having editable menus is bad. Generally, user interfaces should be designed in such a way that the needs of the majority of users are met without having to add changes. Users who have needs that are different from those of the majority can change the user interface in MP, and that is a great thing. I simply don't think that the way the user interface works today meets the needs of the majority of users (based on well known usability dialog principles) and hence it should be changed in order to increase out of the box usability for the majority of users.

What's happening in this discussion is actually quite common in usability engineering. I understand that it's hard to let go of something that has been developed with a lot of personal commitment and in the best belief. In my daily work (I am a usability expert), I apply a simple solution: I show developers what users really want by having users test the product and let the developers observe themselves. This way, the discussion can be reduced to a minimum. I am getting the feeling that a round of user testing would be really helpful here...

Believe me, I only want to help make MP better.

Edit: Typos.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

@astronaut , this is not the best place for feature discussions. Our procedures in terms of changes and adjustments are based on Feature Requests.

You may want to open a thread in the respective section. However, please don't write a long list of things but create an inidividual thread for each topic. Otherwise it is almost impossible to keep track of it.

 

[JohannesJahn]

Hi,
Skin WMC: if I zap to a next channel I can see some information for few seconds. Unfortunalety I can´t see the the name of the movie or series/episode:


In comparison, the BlueVision-Skin shows this missed informations:


I attached the Log-File from Client. Maybe it helps.

Is it possible to show the title in the "zap-info" in WMC like in BlueVision?

 

[ge2301]

Is it possible to show the title in the "zap-info" in WMC like in BlueVision?

Sorry, I missed this one I think. Yes, just press the "info key" (or right mouse) further times and you see details. The current behaviour is intended.

 

[bta489]

6. When searching in Online Videos, I couldn't find a way to select the OK button with my remote after entering text, I have to use the mouse in order to do this (see OV.png).

Same Behaviour here (MP2.1Pre2). After entering the search phrase the down-key selects the 'Cancel' button, but there is no way (except using the mouse) to select 'OK'.

 

[The Solutor]

Good to see some improvements in Pre2, including part of what I mentioned earlier in this thread.

But the of CH+ CH- missing buttons is still there (sometimes they pops out but they do nothing)

The mouse usage w/o them becomes really unpleasant.

Not sure maybe that's a problem connected with resolutions lower than 1920x1080 (or aspect ratios different from 16/9) I use, but I expect they work even if the skin is a bit stretched.

Thanks in advance for your attention.