Channel Scan for HDHomerun Prime not matching (1 Viewer)

kevins7189

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Hi, I'm trying to configure TV Server to scan channels for a HDHomeRun Prime, Cox, cablecard with external tuner.

The issue I am having, is per directions I changed
Tuning Mode = Digital Cable
CAM setup (enabled, also tried disabled).
SD/VCT tuning to 180.
I've randomly tried various other options.

So the problem is, the HDHomerun Channel list has 402 channels, NextPVR, when it does its scan, gets 402 channels. When MediaPortal does it, it only gets 333 (not matter what settings I try, always 333). I have changed HDHomeRun setup to MediaPortal as primary, etc. Why does Mediaportal even try a scan, why not just get the channel list from the HDHomerun it has already?
I'm missing about 30 or so channels I care about, most are HD in the 1200+ range (cox).

Any idea why MediaPortal can't match NextPVR here? I have windows 8.1, don't have MCE so cant test that.
 

mm1352000

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    Hello and welcome :)

    Hi, I'm trying to configure TV Server to scan channels for a HDHomeRun Prime, Cox, cablecard with external tuner.
    When you say "external tuner", do you mean that you have a tuning adaptor/resolver (TA/TR)?
    (A tuning adaptor is a box that plugs into the USB port on the PRIME.)

    The issue I am having, is per directions I changed
    Tuning Mode = Digital Cable
    CAM setup (enabled, also tried disabled).
    SD/VCT tuning to 180.
    I've randomly tried various other options.
    The wiki is right.
    CAM should be enabled with decrypt limit set to one for each tuner. Note that setting doesn't affect scanning.
    Randomly trying other options is probably not going to be helpful. ;)

    So the problem is, the HDHomerun Channel list has 402 channels, NextPVR, when it does its scan, gets 402 channels.
    NextPVR doesn't "scan" as such. It simply takes the list from the HDHR. Therefore the NextPVR list will always match the HDHR list.

    When MediaPortal does it, it only gets 333 (not matter what settings I try, always 333).
    Unlike NextPVR, MP takes its channel information from the CableCARD's forward data channel. That's the same source of information that the HDHR uses to build its channel list, so in theory all three lists - MP, NextPVR and HDHR - should match. The only situation I'm aware of in which there might be a difference is if/when a tuning adaptor is involved. Hence the question above.

    I have changed HDHomeRun setup to MediaPortal as primary, etc.
    AFAIK that is only required for non-CableCARD tuners.

    Why does Mediaportal even try a scan, why not just get the channel list from the HDHomerun it has already?
    Because when I added CableCARD tuner support I decided I wanted to support all CableCARD tuners with a single standard-compliant (non-proprietary) approach.
    The HDHR's list is convenient, but it is also non-standard/proprietary. Consider that Ceton CableCARD tuners also have a channel list... but it is a completely different format to the HDHR list. If I had taken the route you mentioned, I'd have had to support both formats... which is double the work, not to mention that it wouldn't cover any other tuners available now or in the future. NextPVR chose to use the HDHR list... but AFAIK NextPVR doesn't support Ceton tuners.

    I'm missing about 30 or so channels I care about, most are HD in the 1200+ range (cox).
    Okay.

    Any idea why MediaPortal can't match NextPVR here?
    As explained above, MP and NextPVR do things very differently.

    What would help more than anything else is if you could:
    1. Post TV Server log files, so I can see what TV Server is finding.
    2. Give a few specific examples - name and number - of channels that TV Server is not finding.

    Regards,
    mm
     

    kevins7189

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    yes the external tuner = tuning adpater/resolver, etc.
    The only situation I'm aware of in which there might be a difference is if/when a tuning adaptor is involved. Hence the question above.
    So what is this situation?
    To be thorough, I also did a channel scan WITHOUT the resolver, and got 333 channels again. The Prime and NextPVR get a different amount of channels without it. I've noticed the adapter blocks a lot of the Station Identities which is really annoying. To avoid having to map every channel manually, I usually scan without the adapter, match the channels to the EPG, fill in the fewer amount that missing identities (and get rid of channels I don't have), and then put the adapter back. Otherwise I have to map 402 channels manually without identities (at least I did in NextPVR).

    I will try to get the log info later.
     

    mm1352000

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    yes the external tuner = tuning adpater/resolver, etc.
    Okay, so this probably explains why the channel lists don't match.

    The only situation I'm aware of in which there might be a difference is if/when a tuning adaptor is involved. Hence the question above.
    So what is this situation?
    The situation is exactly what I already said: if/when a tuning adaptor has to be used, the channel lists may not match.
    ...or do you mean you want the nitty gritty technical explanation of why the lists may not match?

    To be thorough, I also did a channel scan WITHOUT the resolver, and got 333 channels again.
    Ummm. Okay, I'm not surprised about the result... but to me scanning without the resolver seems a very unusual thing to do.

    The Prime and NextPVR get a different amount of channels without it.
    With this configuration I'd expect them to get the 333 channels MP finds.

    I've noticed the adapter blocks a lot of the Station Identities which is really annoying. To avoid having to map every channel manually, I usually scan without the adapter, match the channels to the EPG, fill in the fewer amount that missing identities (and get rid of channels I don't have), and then put the adapter back. Otherwise I have to map 402 channels manually without identities (at least I did in NextPVR).
    I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. I guess it must be something specific to NextPVR. :confused:

    I will try to get the log info later.
    Thanks. Please don't forget to mention specific examples of missing channels too, as previously requested.
     

    kevins7189

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    TV service log attached for scan of 333 channels.
    Homerun Channel Lineup with 402 Channels.
    There is a large gap of channels missing in the 1200 range, lets say 1255 for example.
     

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    • HDHRPChannelLineup.txt
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    mm1352000

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    Given that you provided the full scan log and channel list - a good thing, thanks (y) - I was able to do some precise comparisons of the two lists.

    Before I dive into this, I should say that it doesn't look like your scan entirely completed. Evidence for this would be a bunch of channels named like "Unknown <channel number> (<physical channel number>-<program number>)".

    Also, TV Server is scanning at least 3 different sources - the virtual channel map, defined channel map, and inverse channel map - to assemble the final channel list (not to mention an additional source for channel names, and another two sources for tuning details). In other words, co-ordinating all this information and coming out with an accurate final list can be a little tricky.

    The lists below show comparisons of VCM vs. DCM, VCM vs. ICM, VCM vs. HDHR etc. The lists of numbers are channel numbers. Last comes a bracketed number, which is the number of channels in the list above.

    [collapse]
    HDHR, not in DCM...
    1
    48
    55
    74
    77
    81
    82
    83
    84
    85
    86
    87
    90
    100
    101
    102
    103
    104
    105
    150
    151
    152
    154
    155
    156
    198
    199
    201
    203
    204
    205
    206
    214
    215
    216
    217
    219
    220
    224
    225
    226
    227
    229
    230
    231
    233
    234
    242
    244
    245
    246
    248
    249
    251
    252
    253
    254
    256
    257
    258
    259
    261
    264
    265
    266
    267
    268
    269
    270
    271
    272
    273
    274
    275
    281
    282
    283
    284
    285
    286
    287
    288
    289
    292
    294
    297
    298
    407
    415
    434
    440
    500
    594
    900
    990
    991
    992
    994
    1044
    1065
    1066
    1079
    1084
    1085
    1087
    1090
    1091
    1092
    1093
    1094
    1095
    1096
    1097
    1101
    1102
    1104
    1205
    1214
    1215
    1217
    1219
    1225
    1226
    1233
    1234
    1242
    1253
    1255
    1257
    1275
    1280
    1284
    1286
    1292
    1294
    1298
    1407
    1850
    1860
    1888
    1889
    1890
    1999

    (143)

    HDHR, not in VCM...
    1
    48
    55
    74
    77
    81
    82
    83
    84
    85
    86
    87
    90
    100
    101
    102
    103
    104
    105
    150
    151
    152
    154
    155
    156
    198
    199
    201
    203
    204
    205
    206
    214
    215
    216
    217
    219
    220
    224
    225
    226
    227
    229
    230
    231
    233
    234
    242
    244
    245
    246
    248
    249
    251
    252
    253
    254
    256
    257
    258
    259
    261
    264
    265
    266
    267
    268
    269
    270
    271
    272
    273
    274
    275
    281
    282
    283
    284
    285
    286
    287
    288
    289
    292
    294
    297
    298
    407
    415
    434
    440
    500
    594
    900
    990
    991
    992
    994
    1044
    1065
    1066
    1079
    1084
    1085
    1087
    1090
    1091
    1092
    1093
    1094
    1095
    1096
    1097
    1101
    1102
    1104
    1205
    1214
    1215
    1217
    1219
    1225
    1226
    1233
    1234
    1242
    1253
    1255
    1257
    1275
    1280
    1284
    1286
    1292
    1294
    1298
    1407
    1850
    1860
    1888
    1889
    1890
    1999

    (143)

    DCM, not in VCM...
    2720
    2730
    2738
    2739
    2740
    2742
    2744
    2746
    2747
    2749
    2750
    2751
    2752
    2754
    2756
    2758
    2764
    2768
    2771
    2773
    2774
    2775
    2777
    2784
    2789
    2791

    (26)

    DCM, not in HDHR...
    91
    300
    340
    361
    408
    435
    436
    437
    445
    450
    452
    501
    502
    508
    651
    652
    653
    654
    655
    656
    657
    658
    659
    660
    1100
    1194
    1195
    1197
    1199
    1221
    1281
    1282
    1300
    1302
    1303
    1308
    1309
    1311
    1320
    1324
    1330
    1335
    1336
    1340
    1342
    1343
    1352
    1361
    1363
    1364
    1366
    1371
    1408
    1501
    1651
    1652
    1653
    1654
    1655
    1656
    1657
    1658
    1659
    1671
    1672
    1673
    1674
    1675
    1676
    1677
    1678
    1679
    2001
    2011
    2021
    2031
    2041
    2051
    2061
    2071
    2720
    2730
    2738
    2739
    2740
    2742
    2744
    2746
    2747
    2749
    2750
    2751
    2752
    2754
    2756
    2758
    2764
    2768
    2771
    2773
    2774
    2775
    2777
    2784
    2789
    2791

    (106)

    VCM, not in DCM...
    3482
    3492

    (2)

    VCM, not in HDHR...
    91
    300
    340
    361
    408
    435
    436
    437
    445
    450
    452
    501
    502
    508
    651
    652
    653
    654
    655
    656
    657
    658
    659
    660
    1100
    1194
    1195
    1197
    1199
    1221
    1281
    1282
    1300
    1302
    1303
    1308
    1309
    1311
    1320
    1324
    1330
    1335
    1336
    1340
    1342
    1343
    1352
    1361
    1363
    1364
    1366
    1371
    1408
    1501
    1651
    1652
    1653
    1654
    1655
    1656
    1657
    1658
    1659
    1671
    1672
    1673
    1674
    1675
    1676
    1677
    1678
    1679
    2001
    2011
    2021
    2031
    2041
    2051
    2061
    2071
    3482
    3492

    (82)

    ICM, not in DCM...

    (0)

    ICM, not in VCM...

    (0)

    ICM, not in HDHR...
    91
    300
    408
    436
    437
    445
    1100
    1195
    1197
    1199
    1282
    1363
    1408
    1652
    1653
    1654
    1655
    1656
    1657
    1658
    1659
    1672
    1673
    1674
    1675
    1676
    1677
    1678
    1679
    2011
    2021
    2041
    2051
    2071

    (34)[/collapse]

    By way of example, the first list - "HDHR, not in DCM" - says that the HDHR list contains 143 channels that are not in the defined channel map source.

    My overall interpretation of all of the above is that TV Server is missing 143 channels from the HDHR's list, but it also has some channels that are not in the HDHR's list. Perhaps as many as 106 channels. In this situation I'm not sure which list is actually correct and accurate. While I acknowledge that the specific example you mentioned - 1255 - is not in TV Server's list, I'm seriously confused by the overall result.

    Can you confirm: is the HDHR list that you pulled the full list of Cox channels in your area, or only the ones that you subscribe to? If it is only your list, would it be possible to post the full list too? That might help to clear up what is going on here...
     

    kevins7189

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    Channel list - best I could find for now. http://media.cox.com/support/print_media/tv/cls/omaha_idaho/cl_omaha.pdf
    Thanks for be interested in my issue :)
    Have a look at this attached file, you asked why I do channel scans without the tuner, maybe this will shed some light. Yields the same 333 channels. This list as you will see shows the channel name and easily matches up with Schedules Direct for mapping, where, as you see on the tuner scan, all the Unknowns won't match the EPG automagically. This is what I was explaining before.
     

    Attachments

    • TVService-notuner.txt
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    mm1352000

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    Ahhh, that wasn't what I was expecting. Where did you get your previous list from? I assumed you had pulled it from http://<HDHR IP address>/lineup.xml list, and had just done a bit of formatting.
    To get the full list: http://<HDHR IP address>/lineup.xml?show=all
    To get only your subscribed channels: http://<HDHR IP address>/lineup.xml

    Please could you grab those two lists. :)

    Thanks for be interested in my issue :)
    No problem. :)
    I'm going to have to pause soon as it is mid-afternoon Christmas eve here in New Zealand already. Plans afoot for the evening...

    Have a look at this attached file, you asked why I do channel scans without the tuner, maybe this will shed some light. Yields the same 333 channels. This list as you will see shows the channel name and easily matches up with Schedules Direct for mapping, where, as you see on the tuner scan, all the Unknowns won't match the EPG automagically. This is what I was explaining before.
    Hmmm, I'm not seeing any difference in names. :confused:
    Could you please give a specific example?
    Note this scan is also incomplete. If the "Unknown..." channels are proving troublesome, I suggest you delete those channels and rescan with a significantly higher SDT/VCT timeout. 300 or 600 (5 or 10 minutes) ought to do it. Names are not updated/fixed by a rescan, hence the need to delete before rescanning.
     

    kevins7189

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    I'll try a 10min scan and let it run overnite.
    Attached are the lineup files you requested.[DOUBLEPOST=1419398392][/DOUBLEPOST]to verify - CAM checked, decode 1, CAM model default, no Grab EPG, no preload, stop card, Tuning mode is Digital Cable, SDT/VCT - 600

    EDIT: The wiki says Digital cable is out of band and always takes 5min or so, and SDT/VCT wouldn't change that. So should I use Clear CAM for this instead?
     

    Attachments

    • lineup.xml
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    • lineup-all.xml
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    mm1352000

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    EDIT: The wiki says Digital cable is out of band and always takes 5min or so, and SDT/VCT wouldn't change that. So should I use Clear CAM for this instead?
    SDT/VCT affects all modes of scanning, including "digital cable". Scanning clear QAM with a CableCARD tuner wouldn't work [currently].
     

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