Client to TV Server connection issue (1 Viewer)

[mm1352000]

Hello again Tony

Please find attached a document containing a screen-shot or the tuners on my production machine.

Wow, I didn't realise you had 4 6205 cards. Wikipedia says there are currently 8 DVB-T/T2 frequencies in use in the UK. I don't know if you were aware, but unlike WMC (which requires one tuner per channel viewed or recorded), TV Server can use one tuner to receive all the channels from a given frequency. Therefore with TV Server and your 16 tuners you could theoretically record every channel available... twice over (!!!). Note that you may hit HDD bandwidth limitations before that point... but still, pretty extreme. Another way of saying this: with TV Server, you actually don't need more than 2 6205 cards. The other 2 cards won't ever be used, so you could sell them.

Getting back on topic...
The tuner associations are as follows:
card A = tuners 3, 4, 5 and 6
card B = tuners 7, 8, 9 and 10
card C = tuners 11, 12, 13 and 14
card D = tuners 15, 16, 17 and 18

I attach a log file for the 'no available tuner' error on the client machine.

I've figured out what was wrong with the 'no available tuner' error message. My fault, I hadn't moved the available channels to the channels available to card.

Ahhh, I thought that might be the problem. I'm glad you were able to figure that out, because the client logs don't include the detail I'd have needed to tell you what was wrong.

Is there a way to declare folders on the server that can be played from one or more clients?

Yes with MediaPortal 2; not directly with MediaPortal 1.

MediaPortal 1's server component ("TV Server") is solely dedicated to TV. It has nothing to do with music, video, pictures etc. The server will enable all clients to see the same channels, channel groups and recording list (once the client has been connected), but the rest including video folders has to be configured per client. Having said that, there's nothing to stop you setting up shared folders on the server (or a NAS). Those folders just have to be configured on each client. If you wanted to, you could try to configure one client, then copy the configuration and databases to each of your other clients. Actually, there is a plugin called MP-Sync that does some of this automatically for you.

On the other hand, MediaPortal 2 has been designed from the ground up to work as you suggested. Media locations are configured once on the server, and the clients get access to them automatically when connected. This may sound perfect... however, you need to be aware that MediaPortal 2 is still a work in progress. That means it isn't as feature rich, there aren't as many plugins and skins, TV support isn't as stable/polished... but other aspects like the server-based configuration and general stability are better than MP 1. If you like the sound of this and would like to give MP2 a shot, you're able to install MP2 on the same PC as MP 1.

Regards,
mm

 

[Anthony Vaughan]

Hi mm

TBS seem to be the first to produce a reliable quad tuner so I'd hesitate a bit before considering 8 tuners on one card. I think it would be a good idea if you changed the tuner names to include the instance of the tuner card in the list. Maybe one to add to the wish list?

In the end I plumped for the share option, sticking with MP1.

On another point. I have experienced some peculiar firewall activity, but haven't yet worked out what is causing the problem. Since I installed MP on my production WMC server, I have found duplicate Media Portal and Media Center Extenders app entries, created at some unknown time since I installed MP Server. These extra entries only had public permissions and therefore these functions stopped working. As soon as I removed these extra entries functionality returned to normal - reverting to the existent entries (public and private ticked). I'll report back when I have worked out what is going on.

Thanks for the help.

Tony

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again Tony

TBS seem to be the first to produce a reliable quad tuner so I'd hesitate a bit before considering 8 tuners on one card.

I didn't say anything about 8 tuners on 1 card. I simply observed that it looks like you have 4 cards with 4 tuners on each card for a total of 16 tuners... when with TV Server and 8 tuners you'd be able to receive and view/record all channels simultaneously. If you have 16 tuners now and if you switch to TV Server, 8 of those tuners (2 cards worth) would never be used.

I think it would be a good idea if you changed the tuner names to include the instance of the tuner card in the list. Maybe one to add to the wish list?

We would if that information were available. Like I said, I don't know how WMC is getting its tuner names.

On another point. I have experienced some peculiar firewall activity...

I can't speak for the Media Center entries, but perhaps it helps to remind you that the MediaPortal installer creates Windows firewall exceptions for MediaPortal and TV Server if configured to do so.

Regards,
mm

 

[CyberSimian]

I think it would be a good idea if you changed the tuner names to include the instance of the tuner card in the list.

We would if that information were available.

A tip: if you look at the "device path" column in the TV Server tuner list, you should be able to identify which tuners come from each card.

When I was using WMC with my (at that time) newly-acquired TBS6284 cards, I had a problem with the start-up of one tuner causing a momentary interruption on other tuners that were already active (the interruption was visible both on live TV and recorded TV). The situation was very complex, because it depended on which tuner started first, which tuner started second, and which card they were on; some combinations worked correctly, others combinations caused the momentary interruption.

Part of the difficulty in identifying a faulty tuner or faulty tuner-card is identifying which PCI-Express slot corresponds to which set of tuners. Although the "device id string" uniquely identifies which tuners reside on which card, it does not obviously identify which card resides in which slot. The only way that I found to identify the slot was to remove one card, reboot, and then write down the device-id string shown in Windows "Device Manager" for the remaining card. All very cumbersome.

Ideally, MP should identify the PCI slot or PCI-Express slot containing the card on which each tuner is located. (Assuming that that is even possible, of course. )

Finally, I am pleased to report that the momentary interruption that occurred when tuners started on WMC does not seem to occur with MP. I guess that there is some difference in the tuner management such that MP does not provoke this error.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[mm1352000]

Part of the difficulty in identifying a faulty tuner or faulty tuner-card is identifying which PCI-Express slot corresponds to which set of tuners. Although the "device id string" uniquely identifies which tuners reside on which card, it does not obviously identify which card resides in which slot. The only way that I found to identify the slot was to remove one card, reboot, and then write down the device-id string shown in Windows "Device Manager" for the remaining card. All very cumbersome.

If necessary it should be possible to match the device path that TV Server uses with attributes that can be found in the properties for the device driver (within device manager).
Alternatively, it should also be possible to disable cards in device manager to work out which is which by process of elimination.
Both of these tactics avoid physically pulling the card and rebooting, which would indeed be a major pain for most people.

Ideally, MP should identify the PCI slot or PCI-Express slot containing the card on which each tuner is located. (Assuming that that is even possible, of course. )

TVE 3.5 identifies the PCI/PCIe slot in order to automatically detect hybrid tuner relationships, so it is possible... but it's not easy, somewhat brittle, and potentially error prone. Note that I hadn't intended to display this information in the tuner list due to its fallibility. Do you think I need to reconsider?

Finally, I am pleased to report that the momentary interruption that occurred when tuners started on WMC does not seem to occur with MP. I guess that there is some difference in the tuner management such that MP does not provoke this error.

I've never seen WMC code to compare, but I think it would be fairly safe to say that there are differences in tuner management.

 

[HTPCSourcer]

TVE 3.5 identifies the PCI/PCIe slot in order to automatically detect hybrid tuner relationships, so it is possible... but it's not easy, somewhat brittle, and potentially error prone. Note that I hadn't intended to display this information in the tuner list due to its fallibility. Do you think I need to reconsider?

Probably not. To my knowledge there is no failsave way of knowing which physical slot Windows is referencing as "slot #1".

 

[mm1352000]

To my knowledge there is no failsave way of knowing which physical slot Windows is referencing as "slot #1".

We can never do better than Windows, because all available information ultimately comes from/through Windows. If Windows calls a slot "slot #1" but it is actually a different physical slot then I guess this is due to the motherboard design. Nothing we can do... but is it better than nothing to at least have the Windows information?

From another angle...
I hope we could agree there is a difference between saying "PCIe slot 1" (ie. a reference to a physical slot) and saying "card 1" (ie. just an indication that a set of tuners are on the same card). If you don't like the first option then do you think the second option is okay?

 

[HTPCSourcer]

but is it better than nothing to at least have the Windows information?

I assume that you ommitted this in your current design because of potential inconsistencies. Personally I have no problem with such info. If really needed it, it would be for the purpose of deactivating the respective device, hence latest at this moment the assignment is either confirmed or proven wrong.

I hope we could agree there is a difference between saying "PCIe slot 1" (ie. a reference to a physical slot) and saying "card 1" (ie. just an indication that a set of tuners are on the same card). If you don't like the first option then do you think the second option is okay?

Absolutely. "PCIe slot 1" is unambiguous, whereas "card 1" is subject to understanding the definition of such terms.

The average user may then be even more confused to see that for some hardware "tuner 1" and "tuner 3" are part of "card 1", which can be found in "PCIe slot 2" .

 

[mm1352000]

I assume that you ommitted this in your current design because of potential inconsistencies.

Actually I simply didn't think about including it at all. I was completely focussed on the hybrid tuner detection and wasn't thinking about differentiating between multiple instances of the same model of tuner.

Absolutely. "PCIe slot 1" is unambiguous, whereas "card 1" is subject to understanding the definition of such terms.

The average user may then be even more confused to see that for some hardware "tuner 1" and "tuner 3" are part of "card 1", which can be found in "PCIe slot 2" .

Now I'm a bit confused about which option you think is okay.

When I said "PCIe slot 1", I meant whatever information Windows has when you:

• open device manager
• right click on tuner device
• select properties
• the bracketed part of the location field

I thought you were saying that the Windows location information didn't necessarily match the physical slot number (which I agree with) and therefore you would recommend not to show that. Have I understood correctly?

When I said "card 1", I meant that TV Server could group tuners by their source card/device, assign an arbitrary number to each card/device group, then show that number. Were you saying that you like this approach better?

 

[HTPCSourcer]

I thought you were saying that the Windows location information didn't necessarily match the physical slot number (which I agree with) and therefore you would recommend not to show that. Have I understood correctly?

Correct.

When I said "card 1", I meant that TV Server could group tuners by their source card/device, assign an arbitrary number to each card/device group, then show that number. Were you saying that you like this approach better?

Looks like a meaningful information. Currently you just see individual tuners and having a physical card info with associated tuners in nowadays more common multi-card/tuner environments would be nice.