Continuity error on TV server (1 Viewer)

[Django.edwards]

MediaPortal Version: 1.2.1
MediaPortal Skin: StreamedMP
Windows Version: Windows 7 32-Bit
CPU Type: AMD Phenom II X4 810
HDD: 2 * 750 GB Hitachi
Memory: 4 GB
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H
Video Card: Onboard ATI HD4200
Video Card Driver: Catalyst 11.7
Sound Card: Onboard
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver:
1. TV Card: KNC 1 TV Station
1. TV Card Type: DVB-S2
1. TV Card Driver: 2.2.310.0
2. TV Card: TBS 6981
2. TV Card Type: DVB-S2
2. TV Card Driver: 2.0.0.21
3. TV Card:
3. TV Card Type:
3. TV Card Driver:
4. TV Card:
4. TV Card Type:
4. TV Card Driver:
MPEG2 Video Codec: K-Lite Pack
MPEG2 Audio Codec: K-Lite Pack
h.264 Video Codec: Coreavc 2.5
Satelite/CableTV Provider: Astra 19.2
HTPC Case: Antec Remote Fusion Max
Cooling: Zipang 2
Power Supply: Seasonic S12
Remote: Antec - Veris RM200
TV: Sony KDL-40S5500
TV - HTPC Connection: HDMI

Hi,

i noticed that in the tv.log there a quite often a discontinuity error. Even when I do some manual timeshift test on the server side. So the client has nothing to do with it.
Is there a possibility to further investigate on this. Where do this errors come from?
I know that it is quite difficult to same but I have really no idea how to go further.
What I have observed is, that these errors are only with my KNC one cards on the crypted channels. When I do the same tests with my TBS6981 I got no errors.
The pain is, that only my KNC Cards have an CI module, so I can not test the same channels on my TBS.
Is there a possibility to know if these errors came from the satelit stream or maybe from a bad driver?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi Django

Common causes of continuity errors:
- signal problems
- decryption failures
- overstressed HDD (being used by other software, fragmented, almost full...)
- overheating components

Basically they mean the signal is corrupted somehow. It is good that you have narrowed it down to the KNC card. It may be that the CAM is causing this; possibly the tuner is not as sensitive as the TBS tuners. Possibly cabling. There are a lot of things that it could be.

To rule out signal issues I would try to use the cable connected to the TBS tuner with the KNC tuner (*be careful* to turn off all computers, STBs and switches before changing cables). If possible, also get your dish alignment checked.
You can also try to remove the CAM and only tune FTA channels for a while to see if the CAM might be causing it.
Check that the timeshifting location for the TBS and KNC tuners is the same (the virus scanner should be *disabled* for that folder).

mm

 

[Django.edwards]

Hi mm,

thanks for you quick response.

I am absolute shure that the cable and dish is ok. The signal strength and quality is also ok. So I think that it is not hardware related. (Dish, cable and so on)
All the timeshift files goes to the same location, which is excluded in the virus scanner. Even with the virus scanner disabled I have the same problems.

What I observed is that, when I tune to the channel "La une" I got about 6 error in 30 min., but when I tune to the Channel "AB1" I got much more, about 20 errors.
Both channels have about the same signal and quality strength.
What do you think, could this be an error from the broadcaster?

I will do some test with FTA channels the next days and give you the results.

Another question. Do you have maybe some kind of debug version where the hole timeshift part isn't included. With this we could be shure that only the receive part of the server is checked. You understand what I mean? Maybe is it possible to have some diagnostic counters incorporated, to see if there are errors in the encrypted part or only in the decrypted part, to find out if the cam is the problem or not.
I think such diagnostic functions could be fine for other users too to neare by their problems.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again Django

I am absolute shure that the cable and dish is ok. The signal strength and quality is also ok. So I think that it is not hardware related. (Dish, cable and so on)

People have said the same to me in the past. Recently somebody had such errors in a system that had been reliable for years. Turned out to be the new "high quality" flylead they had bought a couple of weeks ago. I still think you should at least check using the feed from the TBS tuners and/or remove the splitter entirely if possible. Removing the splitter would increase the signal strength seen by the tuner - this would tell you whether the signal strength is borderline. You must not assume that all tuners behave the same with the same signal - they don't. In other words, just because the TBS tuners aren't affected does *not* mean that it is not a signal problem for the KNC tuner.

All the timeshift files goes to the same location, which is excluded in the virus scanner. Even with the virus scanner disabled have the same problems.

Excellent - I *think* that rules out the HDD.

What I observed is that, when I tune to the channel "La une" I got about 6 error in 30 min., but when I tune to the Channel "AB1" I got much more, about 20 errors.
Both channels have about the same signal and quality strength.
What do you think, could this be an error from the broadcaster?

No. The KNC card could be slightly less sensitive than the TBS one if that is the case. I guess we will see.

I will do some test with FTA channels the next days and give you the results.

I look forward to the results.

Another question. Do you have maybe some kind of debug version where the hole timeshift part isn't included. With this we could be shure that only the receive part of the server is checked. You understand what I mean? Maybe is it possible to have some diagnostic counters incorporated, to see if there are errors in the encrypted part or only in the decrypted part, to find out if the cam is the problem or not.
I think such diagnostic functions could be fine for other users too to neare by their problems.

You have the discontinuity counters already in the manual control section of TV Server configuration. Making the changes to remove the writing to file etc. just for debugging seems like a lot of effort. When the CAM is decrypting, we don't get access to the signal before it is decrypted. Signal path is something like:

Tuner ==> demodulator ==> CAM ==> TsWriter ==> file

...not...

Tuner ==> demodulator ==> TsWriter ==> CAM ==> file

(Tuner and demodulator are hardware controlled by the tuner driver.)

Communication with the CAM is mostly kept in the tuner driver. TV Server only says "decrypt that channel" to the tuner driver and it happens. So if I have understood what you're asking for correctly, it is not possible to isolate whether the CAM is at fault *except* if you're not viewing an encrypted channel and you remove the CAM, in which case you can be sure that the CAM is not involved.

mm

 

[Django.edwards]

Hi mm,

I am absolute shure that the cable and dish is ok. The signal strength and quality is also ok. So I think that it is not hardware related. (Dish, cable and so on)

People have said the same to me in the past. Recently somebody had such errors in a system that had been reliable for years. Turned out to be the new "high quality" flylead they had bought a couple of weeks ago. I still think you should at least check using the feed from the TBS tuners and/or remove the splitter entirely if possible. Removing the splitter would increase the signal strength seen by the tuner - this would tell you whether the signal strength is borderline. You must not assume that all tuners behave the same with the same signal - they don't. In other words, just because the TBS tuners aren't affected does *not* mean that it is not a signal problem for the KNC tuner.

I know this, so I will for shure recheck the installation. But this can only be done next week. I will give you feedback.

What I observed is that, when I tune to the channel "La une" I got about 6 error in 30 min., but when I tune to the Channel "AB1" I got much more, about 20 errors.
Both channels have about the same signal and quality strength.
What do you think, could this be an error from the broadcaster?

No. The KNC card could be slightly less sensitive than the TBS one if that is the case. I guess we will see.

Both channels are on the same satelite and received by the same KNC Card. They are both crypted. So I can not tune these channels with the TBS. Even when I receive these channels with my second KNC card I got the same results. Thats the reason why I think this could be a provider issue. Or I must be an driver or decoding related problem.

You have the discontinuity counters already in the manual control section of TV Server configuration. Making the changes to remove the writing to file etc. just for debugging seems like a lot of effort. When the CAM is decrypting, we don't get access to the signal before it is decrypted. Signal path is something like:

Tuner ==> demodulator ==> CAM ==> TsWriter ==> file

...not...

Tuner ==> demodulator ==> TsWriter ==> CAM ==> file

(Tuner and demodulator are hardware controlled by the tuner driver.)

Communication with the CAM is mostly kept in the tuner driver. TV Server only says "decrypt that channel" to the tuner driver and it happens. So if I have understood what you're asking for correctly, it is not possible to isolate whether the CAM is at fault *except* if you're not viewing an encrypted channel and you remove the CAM, in which case you can be sure that the CAM is not involved.

Thanks for clarification on this point.

I will do some tests next week and come back with results. Thank you for your help. And sorry about my bad english.
Have a nice weekend!

Django.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again

Just a quick comment:

Both channels are on the same satelite...

Even this does not guarantee that they will have the same signal strength. Transponders on the satellite can have different "gain". Also, cable does not pass all frequencies equally well.

Thank you for your help. And sorry about my bad english.

You're very welcome, and no need to apologise.
Have an *excellent* weekend too!

Best regards,
mm

 

[aquamax]

AW: Continuity error on TV server

After spending a lot of time for analyzing this problem:
In my case the problem came from MS Security Essentials (Virus Scanner).
So, i have to put the tvservice.exe on the list of process-exceptions
Now, the Problem is solved for me.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi aquamax

Thanks for the tip!

mm

 

[Django.edwards]

Hi,

I did some further investigation on this problem, and it seems that these continuity error do not appear if I disconnect the ci module. I'm still investigating on this.
At the moment I put only 1 card in the system with ci connected, and this card works well. Next I will check my second card (when it is the only card in the system) to see if there is a problem with the hardware.

 

[Django.edwards]

Ok, so I some some further test. And finally I found the solution. My original CAM's which are from telesat.be, my belgium provider, makes these errors. I changed now to 2 Aston Crypt modules... and what should I say.... no errors anymore. Absolutely 0 errors, even after hours of testing. So I quite happy now.

I would just let you know, that it can also be a cam which cause the problem.

Or is it possible that it can also be fixed by software? Maybe the way the cam is called? I don't know.