Is Mediaportal dying out? (1 Viewer)

[The Doctor]

Looking back at your older posts I see we had a great discussion here:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/threads/automatically-delete-unwanted-channels.129351/

You wouldn't have seen any change as a result of that discussion yet, but I can tell you I definitely made changes to TVE 3.5 code based on your feedback. You'll see those changes when TVE 3.5 becomes available.


I didn't say that such a feature was impossible. Rather, I said that I don't understand why it's so important to you. That's why I asked "why...?".
If you can explain why the feature is so important to you, maybe I can understand and implement something that will meet your needs.



I agree. I'm not trying to argue; I'm trying to understand. Understanding requires many questions for clarification of what you mean.


Okay, so you think it makes life easier. Can you please expand: in what way does having this feature (at the moment I'm thinking particularly of scanning and channel organisation) make it easier?
I ask because for me it is far far easier to use a regular program like TV Server Config than a "10 foot" front end interface, especially for tasks like those we've been talking about. Some of the reasons I think it's easier include:

• I can use a regular keyboard for typing names and channel numbers
• I can use keyboard/mouse shortcuts (CTRL, SHIFT, HOME, END) for quick selection (eg. select all channels in list except 4, 9 and 11)
• I can view websites (eg. KingOfSat) at the same time (eg. for scan result checking/comparison)
• I can see more list items at a glance (smaller font)
• list scrolling is so much easier due to mouse track wheel and/or click + drag of scroll bars

So to repeat: why do you think it's easier to use the front end?
Is it just that you don't have to close the front end and open a separate program, or...?

Ferry ------ Correct, I don't want to have 'noobs' close mp and mess around with the config. For me it's easy but for outsiders ...It's so easy to kill a perfectly working mp enviroment.


I don't know why you think you always need the websites. I was hoping you could help me understand with a specific example, like: channel X moved from transponder 123 to transponder 456 on date X/Y/Z, and the transponder list still doesn't include transponder 456 after X months.

Ferry --------- The problem is in the transponder list(s). The indication if the modulation is DBVS or DVBS2 is not available. There for the modulation is often set wrong, hence tv-server cannot find any programm on the transponder. And offcourse a nit scan will reveal all other setting for the mix (multiplex) so there is no need to scan all transponders but just the one with the nit info. You are right that information is very rare for providers to make public. Hence the need of an accurate transponder list. Would be awsome if tv-server could grab a site as kingofsat. The layout didn't change over the past 10 years or so.


Sure, I understand this, and I agree: it's great when things just work.


Please report issues like this. They won't be fixed unless they're reported.


I don't really want you to leave, and I definitely don't want MP to die. Therefore I need to comment in order to understand what is causing you to think about leaving. Change of direction can only come after understanding what needs to be changed.

Ferry ------- Here below you see the missing setting, there is no information on DVB-S2. Both lists are from 13-jan-2017

 

[The Doctor]

above all done on a smartphone, sorry the quote/unquote didn't work as it should

 

[mm1352000]

Here below you see the missing setting, there is no information on DVB-S2.

TVE determines whether a transponder is DVB-S or DVB-S2 using the modulation parameter:

• ModNotSet = DVB-S
• ModQpsk = DVB-S2 QPSK
• Mod8Psk = DVB-S2 8 PSK

There's no need for a separate DVB-S/S2 indication.
You don't have to care/worry about this in order to scan.

For your example: KingOfSat shows the transponder is DVB-S2 8 PSK... and the transponder list shows Mod8Psk as expected.

 

[The Doctor]

Ok, Than a rescan of the transponder should work, The channels in the multiplex on a transponder that has altered the modulation should be found. However that is not the case and you end up editing channels manually. I am sorry but that's how it works. At least at my side.
As a side effect, channels that are found again after a rescan often end up as duplicates. If that's the case you need to manually assign the correct channels that can be watched to your prefered channelgroup and delete the others that cannot be watched. If you don't you get a growing database with thousends of channels.

Thanks for the clarification on modulation detection. I think something goes wrong in TV server in choosing the correct modulation based on the transponder list. I cannot explain why tv-server cannot correctly find channels after a new fresh rescan (actually it does find them, but you can't watch because of the wrong settings).
And I also think that tv-server does not update it's database correctly if it finds a channel that is found to be transmitted with different parameters than before.

If that issue is fixed, all we need is the option in mp (from the front-end) to rescan the current transponder we are trying to watch and have the affected channel retuned with the new parameters.
I know thats pretty much the way a STB works, but you cannot deny a STB works super easy. And that's what I want. Super easy.

 

[mm1352000]

Ok, Than a rescan of the transponder should work, The channels in the multiplex on a transponder that has altered the modulation should be found.

Indeed, a rescan should work, and yes those channels should be found.

However that is not the case...

You're the first person to report such a problem. I'd like to investigate. Could you please provide the following information:

• before the scan
  • confirm TV Server's log level is set to "debug" in TV Server Configuration -> general section
  • a screenshot of your scan settings
• after the scan
  • a screenshot of the scan result
    
  • all TV Server log files
  • an export of your TV and radio channels after the scan
  • the official name (eg. from KingOfSat) of one or more channels which was not found

As a side effect, channels that are found again after a rescan often end up as duplicates.

"Duplicates" should only be created if the channel's identifier (ONID + TSID + SID) changes. When the channel identifier changes, TV Server has no way to confirm that the new channel is the same as the old one.

Thanks for the clarification on modulation detection.

You're welcome.

I think something goes wrong...

I can't imagine how TV Server could make such mistakes. Still, I'd be very happy to investigate.

If that issue is fixed...

The first step towards fixing the issue depends on you providing the information requested above.

 

[The Doctor]

Posting logs can take a while. The provider first has to change settings. However Canal Digitaal changes transmission details almost every month. So lets wait!

 

[mm1352000]

Sure, there's no rush. Take your time.

 

[mm1352000]

@The Doctor
Any progress on providing log files?

 

[The Doctor]

Not yet, I am traveling. And there is no need for at the moment. But I will change a few settings in the current channellist and see if MP restores the correct settings after a rescan. (and provide logs)

 

[praxidice]

From my perspective as a newbie to software HTPC, both MP and Kodi have glaring problems that it appears nobody is interested in addressing. First and foremost is documentation which omits more critical information than it includes. Secondly, whilst MP is in many respects considerably more user-friendly than Kodi, it has long had a real problem in Australia with scanning SBS FTA, and there isn't nearly sufficient information about completing a manual scan. That said, Kodi seems to have been designed to rely largely on the unspeakably obtuse tvheadend, one of the most user-hostile applications ever conceived. Thirdly, add-ons / plugins are a disaster case with both MP and Kodi. Some work and some are clearly the ill-conceived product of a disturbed mind in that they are complicated beyond imagination and testing / quality control have never been implemented. There is certainly a place for software HTPC applications, but it is imperative that the mindless complexity at all costs linux mentality be banished. Commercial hardware will always be designed to pander to FTA companies, for example ad-skipping disabled and limitations on access to IPTV. In my opinion, a genuinely user-friendly interface (ie MCE before Redmond decided to kill it off, MP, and to some extent Kodi), a wide range of thoroughly tested add-ons / plugins, and updating processes which don't break more than they fix, are all critical to the acceptance of software HTPC solutions. In addition, there is a strong case for applications to be available for a range of operating systems. This won't be straightforward. Microsoft is certain to throw curved balls without notice which makes it difficult to know when an update will do something unusual, and given the plethora of linux distributions, 'features' are common. Then there are the rats and mice IoS, android, unixes etc, all of which have a devoted following, but which all necessitate specific approaches.