No Blu-ray playback without Java in 1.16? (1 Viewer)

[wiyosaya]

I just recently upgraded to MePo 1.16. My PC does not have Java installed. With previous versions, I was able to select a title from the popup list that appeared when selecting the Blu-ray under videos.

Now, however, titles no longer play when selecting them from the popup list even with a BR that used to play in older MP versions when titles were selected from the popup.

I have attached a log file that I recorded while recreating the problem.

I am going to install Java to see if the disc will play with Java installed, and I will post to this thread after I have done so.

Thanks.

 

[wiyosaya]

Update - it appears that the BR disc would not play due to the fact that I had the AMD video decoder set as the codec for BR discs. This was working, but I recently updated the AMD video drivers, so I assume that AMD broke something. I may roll back the driver to the previous version I had installed as the AMD codec, when it works, seems to do a much better job.

I tried setting the BR codecs back to the LAV filters, and the BR disc now plays from the popup menu that appears - even though the video is horrible for the first few seconds.

I also installed the JRE, not the JDK, set JAVA_HOME to alternately the java parent directory (C:\PROGRA~2\Java\JRE18~1.0_1) and the java bin directory (C:\PROGRA~2\Java\JRE18~1.0_1\bin) and the BR java menu does not display for whatever reason.

Do I need to install the JDK, or do I need to set JRE_HOME instead of JAVA_HOME?

I have attached more log files. the first two are with the AMD codec, and the second two are with the LAV codec. The 23_59 file is with JAVA_HOME set to the bin directory, and the second is with JAVA_HOME set to the java parent directory - both of which are as above.

Thanks in advance!

 

[wiyosaya]

OK, so what I found out is that 1.16.0 does not seem to play any BR discs if it is run outside of MP Watchdog even with the LAV filters for the BR codecs. On my system, the popup menu appears, but when I select an entry from the popup menu, nothing happens. If MP is run with the Watchdog, it plays BR discs, but, for my case, uses the popup menu to display a list of items to play which I can then select, and it will play them.

I rolled back my AMD driver to one that I know was working, and that seems to no longer work. I can only get MP to play a BR if it is run in the Watchdog and the LAV Filters are selected for the codec. (Obviously, the codec problem may still be an AMD problem.)

I am attaching four more logs. the 01_22 file was created with Watchdog and selecting the option to collect all system log files after i ran MP outside of Watchdog using the LAV filters and having it fail to play a BR from the popup menu.

So, I am wondering whether there is a bug with BR playback in MP 1.16.0?

Thanks again.

 

[mm1352000]

Hello wiyosaya

With previous versions, I was able to select a title...

This should still work. Java is not required to play BDs in title mode.
As you discovered, the reason it was failing for you appears to be that you had configured MP to use a codec (AMD Video Decoder) that was no longer installed.

...as the AMD codec, when it works, seems to do a much better job.

In what way?
I'm curious because personally I wouldn't have recommended the AMD codecs... at all!

...even though the video is horrible for the first few seconds.

What exactly do you mean by "horrible"?
Screenshots would be good.

...set JAVA_HOME...

AFAIK you should only set JAVA_HOME if you install the JDK, and in that case it should be set to the parent directory.

Do I need to install the JDK...?

I'm 90+% sure that the JRE should be sufficient. Just don't set JAVA_HOME. libbluray can locate your JRE using registry details.

...or do I need to set JRE_HOME instead of JAVA_HOME?

AFAIK you should set neither.
I don't think JRE_HOME is recognised by libbluray.
I know JAVA_HOME works fine because I've tested it myself, however I have a JDK. As above: AFAIK you should not set JAVA_HOME if you've only got the JRE.

I have attached more log files.

...which all clearly show that libbluray failed to locate your Java installation:

27-04-2017 00:02:31.480 [ 774]libjvm_detected: 0

OK, so what I found out is that 1.16.0 does not seem to play any BR discs if it is run outside of MP Watchdog...

When you run MP outside the Watchdog you're using a Bluray Handler plugin. That plugin is the reason playback fails.
When you run MP with the Watchdog you're using MP's native Blu-Ray support. That's why playback works.
In short: disable or uninstall the Bluray Handler plugin.

So, I am wondering whether there is a bug with BR playback in MP 1.16.0?

There may well be bugs in our BR support, but with the greatest respect, all the issues you've reported appear to be of your own making.

Kind regards,
mm

 

[wiyosaya]

Thanks for your help.

Attached is a screenshot of the first few seconds of Avatar.

Respectfully, I suggest that the release notes on what to do to enable BR disc menus be updated to include the pertinent points in your post. Pretty much all that is said in the release notes is that BR menuing is now supported and that Java needs to be installed. Setting JAVA_HOME was discussed in this post; which I found on searching elsewhere for help to get the feature. I assume that most people using BR playback are using the BD Handler, too. Including that the BD Handler must be disabled/uninstalled also seems a key point that I do not recall seeing elsewhere.

So, I uninstalled the BD Handler plug-in, and removed my JAVA_HOME variable. I have succeeded in getting at least on disc to play its menu. The popup list still appears, and selecting "menu" from that list seems also necessary. Is the menu supposed to play automatically?

Also, when I select "Menu" from the popup for Avatar, the screen displays a message about going to a website for help with the disc, then goes to black; however, when I try to recreate this by running watchdog, selecting "Menu" from the popup goes directly into the movie. I collected the logs with Watchdog, and I have attached them.

I have yet to try other discs. If menus do not work on any other discs, would you like me to let you know?

Since the AMD decoder worked previously, I tried it again. When I try to select a title to play, I get a message box that says "Unable to play: index" Attached is a screenshot. If I had more time, I would go back to 1.15 and do a sanity check to ensure that the AMD decoder works properly. I get you don't recommend the AMD decoder.

Thanks again!

 

[mm1352000]

Hello again

Attached is a screenshot of the first few seconds of Avatar.

Thanks.
What you're seeing there is definitely not typical of a correctly configured LAV setup. In my opinion the screenshot shows either macro-blocking or de/interlacing artifacts... or maybe a combination of both. I'd suggest to check your LAV and GPU deinterlacing and post-processing settings for a start. You'd be welcome to attach screenshots of those settings.

Pretty much all that is said in the release notes is that BR menuing is now supported and that Java needs to be installed.

That's all that's said because it's all that's required.
Install the JRE... or install the JDK. That's it. Simple.

Setting JAVA_HOME was discussed in this post; which I found on searching elsewhere for help to get the feature.

Why do you think we need to mention JAVA_HOME in the release notes, and what do you think we should say about it?
I ask you this because to the best of my knowledge there's no need to set JAVA_HOME in connection with MediaPortal unless you're building MediaPortal's Blu-Ray components from code. The vast majority of people don't do that.

I assume that most people using BR playback are using the BD Handler, too.

Sorry, I don't agree with that assumption. MediaPortal has had built-in support for Blu-Ray title mode playback (ie. the equivalent of what the BD Handler plugin offered) since version 1.3 (released: 13 March 2013). When that version of MP was released, the BD Handler plugin effectively became obsolete. We're now 4 years and 13 major MP1 releases down the road. As a result, to the best of my knowledge very few people still use the plugin today. So few people use it that in my opinion it doesn't warrant a mention in the release notes (which are meant to be as brief and to-the-point as possible).

Is the menu supposed to play automatically?

No. What you saw is all normal and expected.

however, when I try to recreate this by running watchdog, selecting "Menu" from the popup goes directly into the movie.

Try going to the root menu (ie. after selecting menu and being taken directly to the movie, press 'd' or right click and select root menu).

If menus do not work on any other discs, would you like me to let you know?

Definitely.
Please start a new thread -->here<-- with log files for each Blu-Ray you have trouble with.
Additional information may be needed (eg. a detailed libbluray debug log, a copy of the Blu-Ray's menu, screenshots etc.) depending on the situation.

When I try to select a title to play, I get a message box that says "Unable to play: index" Attached is a screenshot.

As I said in my previous reply, the AMD decoder was uninstalled. According to the most recent log files you've provided, rolling back to the previous drivers doesn't appear to have reinstalled it.

If I had more time, I would go back to 1.15 and do a sanity check to ensure that the AMD decoder works properly.

Going back to MP 1.15 won't help. As above and previously: the decoder appears to have been uninstalled during your GPU driver update. If you want to use it, you'll have to find a way to reinstall it. No amount of messing with MediaPortal will help bring it back.

I get you don't recommend the AMD decoder.

In addition to what I said about your LAV experience being unusual, please also note that the people who developed Blu-Ray support are all using LAV. This doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use the AMD decoder. You're just more likely to get the best possible results and attention for problem reports if you use the same codecs that the developers use.

Regards,
mm

 

[wiyosaya]

Thanks for your help!

Hello again
Thanks.
What you're seeing there is definitely not typical of a correctly configured LAV setup. In my opinion the screenshot shows either macro-blocking or de/interlacing artifacts... or maybe a combination of both. I'd suggest to check your LAV and GPU deinterlacing and post-processing settings for a start. You'd be welcome to attach screenshots of those settings...
As I said in my previous reply, the AMD decoder was uninstalled. According to the most recent log files you've provided, rolling back to the previous drivers doesn't appear to have reinstalled it.

The condition in the screenshot only happens for the first few seconds. After that, the video clears up.

As you mention, the AMD driver may have been uninstalled when I reinstalled the drivers. I'll check that. I usually download the smallest package, and as such, the package I downloaded may not have included the H.264 driver.

I note that it is still listed as a selection in MP Config. I did a "clean install" with the drivers, so I would assume that after it was uninstalled and no longer available on the system it would not have been listed in MP Config.

In addition, there is one ATSC OTA channel I receive where the video stutters badly with the LAV decoders. It looks like it is displaying every other frame, but it is so bad that the effect is visible in MP. Literally, the rendering goes from video for a second or so to a blank frame for the next second or so and continues to repeat this pattern as long as I am tuned to that channel. Perhaps this is also a case where deinterlacing also has a problem or is not configured correctly. Since it happens only on this one channel, I assume that it is because of what they have done to the video before they transmit.

I do receive several other ATSC OTA channels that were rendered properly with LAV but, I switched to the AMD decoder for TV, and that channel, as well as all the others, is rendered perfectly with the AMD decoder and without adjusting settings. From my perspective, the AMD decoders perform better than LAV.

Sorry, I don't agree with that assumption. MediaPortal has had built-in support for Blu-Ray title mode playback (ie. the equivalent of what the BD Handler plugin offered) since version 1.3 (released: 13 March 2013). When that version of MP was released, the BD Handler plugin effectively became obsolete. We're now 4 years and 13 major MP1 releases down the road. As a result, to the best of my knowledge very few people still use the plugin today. So few people use it that in my opinion it doesn't warrant a mention in the release notes (which are meant to be as brief and to-the-point as possible).

I started at MP 1.9. I must have missed something somewhere along the lines, or perhaps installation instructions or something else are not consistent with the current state of the code or I misinterpreted the instructions for BR support. BR support was one of the reasons I chose MP, and after carefully reading MP documentation, I got the impression when installing MP 1.9 that the BD Handler plug-in was built-in and required for BR playback.

So perhaps that is where the confusion is in that there is an internal BD Handler that is referred to as BD Handler as well as a plug-in named BD Handler?

I don't know what happened, but I am not usually that easily confused. (I am a dev in my life outside of when I am using MP. ) If there is a separate BD Handler plug-in that is no longer required, IMHO, it should be disabled or removed from the plug-ins library (for any version after the version where it was no longer required) so that people like me do not become confused as to what is required for BR support.

In addition to what I said about your LAV experience being unusual, please also note that the people who developed Blu-Ray support are all using LAV. This doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use the AMD decoder. You're just more likely to get the best possible results and attention for problem reports if you use the same codecs that the developers use.

I get what you are saying, and I agree with the decision to go this route. Having a generic layer between the software and the hardware is akin to Nirvana for a dev.

However, I will likely go back to the AMD decoder. The APU that I have has hardware decoding for H.264 video, and AMD, in theory anyway , knows their hardware the best. If I experience trouble in the future, I will switch to LAV to ensure that it happens with LAV also before posting anything.

Is the log I posted for Avatar sufficient, or would you prefer I post to thread you linked with a MP Watchdog log?

I do want to mention that I tried a BR disc with a menuing system that does not play properly even on a dedicated player and the menu worked perfectly in MP. The disc is DVE HD Basics. Kudos and a big thumbs up for that.

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks for your help!

You're welcome any time.

I note that it is still listed as a selection in MP Config. I did a "clean install" with the drivers, so I would assume that after it was uninstalled and no longer available on the system it would not have been listed in MP Config.

Normally you'd be absolutely right. However codecs are a little tricky because they're files that are registered in the Windows system registry. If an uninstaller removes the files and forgets to unregister them, MP Config would still show the option [because codec lists are based on the contents of the system registry] but MP would be unable to use them [because the files themselves are missing]. Unfortunately this happens all too often. Maybe that's what the AMD uninstaller did, I don't know for sure.

In addition, there is one ATSC OTA channel...

Sounds like a completely different issue, but once again, probably related to your LAV config. I'd be happy to look into it if you're interested.

...I got the impression when installing MP 1.9 that the BD Handler plug-in was built-in and required for BR playback.

So perhaps that is where the confusion is in that there is an internal BD Handler that is referred to as BD Handler as well as a plug-in named BD Handler?

I don't know how you got that impression. There's only one BDHandler. It is and always has been a third party plugin.
Anyway, it's water under the bridge now.

If there is a separate BD Handler plug-in that is no longer required, IMHO, it should be disabled or removed from the plug-ins library (for any version after the version where it was no longer required) so that people like me do not become confused as to what is required for BR support.

I can see your perspective. However we tend to take a more hands-off approach. This is an open source community. In the spirit of open source, I guess we've leaned towards respecting people's freedom to choose to use whichever plugins they like even if those plugins duplicate built-in capabilities.

Having a generic layer between the software and the hardware is akin to Nirvana for a dev.

Sure is!

The APU that I have has hardware decoding for H.264 video, and AMD, in theory anyway , knows their hardware the best.

AMD do know their hardware best, but actually this is another case of having a generic layer between software and hardware. In this case the generic layer is the Microsoft-specified hardware accelerated video decoding interface (DXVA - DirectX Video Acceleration). All codecs - including LAV, AMD, Cyberlink... whatever - are going to use the same AMD-optimised hardware decoding implementation provided by the AMD driver. In other words: unless the AMD codec works outside the standard interface (IMHO unlikely), LAV should be able to match the AMD codec (and vice versa).

Is the log I posted for Avatar sufficient, or would you prefer I post to thread you linked with a MP Watchdog log?

It's a start. As per my previous reply, the next step on that front would be to try to access the BR root menu as described.

I do want to mention...

Nice! Thanks for the feedback.