Trouble with Terratec H7 and CAM (1 Viewer)

[paalkr]

MediaPortal Version: 1.2.1
MediaPortal Skin: Default
Windows Version: Windows 7 32bit home premium sp1
CPU Type: AMD Athlon(tm) II X4 640
HDD:
Memory: 4GB
Motherboard:
Video Card: ATI HD 5570
Video Card Driver: Latest
Sound Card:
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver:
1. TV Card: IPTV
1. TV Card Type: DVB-IP
1. TV Card Driver: MP inbuilt
2. TV Card: Cinergy T PCIe Dual
2. TV Card Type: Terrestrial
2. TV Card Driver: 6.0.108.72
3. TV Card: Terratec H7
3. TV Card Type: Terrestrial / Cable
3. TV Card Driver: 1.00.06.801 or 1.00.07.601, makes no difference
4. TV Card:
4. TV Card Type:
4. TV Card Driver:
MPEG2 Video Codec: Microsoft DTV
MPEG2 Audio Codec: Microsoft DTV
h.264 Video Codec: Microsoft DTV
Satelite/CableTV Provider: RiksTV (Norway)
HTPC Case:
Cooling:
Power Supply:
Remote: Windows MCE
TV: JVC
TV - HTPC Connection: HDMI


Hi All!

I have some trouble decrypting scrambled channels with a Terratec H7 tuner, using an official CAM (Strong - CONAX) and key card from my terrestrial TV provider RiksTV (in Norway). Just after a fresh boot everything works OK, but after the tuner being idle for some time (like 5 minutes) I just get a "channels is scrambled" message on encrypted channels. Pulling out the CAM (and of course the key card) from the tuner and re-entering the CAM solves the problem, encrypted channels works OK again. Just after re-entering the CAM module I may from time to time get a message about bad signal. As long as the tuner is in use on any encrypted channel thing works OK, the problem occurs when the tuner is NOT being used for some time.

I have tried the following in debug mode, please see attached log files.
* tuned to TV2 HD -> channels is scrambled message
* Ejected and re-entered the CAM
* tuned to some random encrypted channels on the same mux as TV2 HD -> no signal message
* tuned to TV2 HD -> OK

I have tried the patch from this thread, but that did not make any difference:
https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/...8/multichannel-decryption-improvements-95992/

Regards,
PK

 

[mm1352000]

Hi paalkr

My multidecrypt patch won't help you with a problem like this. First thing I would suggest: don't use "pause card". See "when card enters idle state..." comments in the wiki -->here<--. If you don't have a good reason to be using it then I recommend you don't use it.

mm

 

[paalkr]

Hi!

Thanks for looking into this! The Terratec H7 card is set to stop, not pause. I have tried both settings, but the behavior is identical with respect to this error. The strange thing is that just removing and re-entering the CAM is sufficient. I don't even have to restart TV service or MP, actually just restarting the TVservice (without removing the CAM) does not solve the problem.

Regards,
PK

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again

Thanks for looking into this! The Terratec H7 card is set to stop, not pause.

Interesting. What I see in the logs is:

2011-12-10 13:21:17.142564 [(16)]: tvcard:FreeSubChannel : no subchannels present, pausing graph
2011-12-10 13:21:17.143564 [(16)]: dvbauseGraph called
2011-12-10 13:21:17.144564 [(16)]: tvcard:FreeAllSubChannels
2011-12-10 13:21:17.145564 [(16)]: dvbauseGraph

The strange thing is that just removing and re-entering the CAM is sufficient. I don't even have to restart TV service or MP, actually just restarting the TVservice (without removing the CAM) does not solve the problem.

You are not the only person to have strange problems with the H7 (example). Your comment above suggests that this is more likely a driver or CAM compatibility problem. MP does not have any direct control over that aspect of functionality - it is all in the driver. I honestly don't know of anything further that I can suggest to do in MP to try to solve this. I suggest that you report the problem to Terratec and try to reproduce the problem in other software.

mm

 

[paalkr]

Hmmm.. I'm nut sure if I like that answer Getting support from Terratec seems much harder than getting support from the MP team Except for that I'm thinking the same as you, that this is a driver/HW/windows version issue.

Is the CI menu in TV config settings suppose to give me some information? Currently I dont get any CI menu at all in MP. Can this point to something in MP?

Thanks for the help so far! Do you think I would be better of with an other tuner card, Digital Devics for example?

Any suggestions for other software to try to replicate the error?

Regards,
PK

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again

Hmmm.. I'm nut sure if I like that answer Getting support from Terratec seems much harder than getting support from the MP team

I never like to have to give such an answer as I really do want to be able to help. Unfortunately I really don't know of any way to investigate further for you. I don't have an H7 or the same CAM as you which makes it difficult...

Is the CI menu in TV config settings suppose to give me some information? Currently I dont get any CI menu at all in MP. Can this point to something in MP?

Now that is one thing that I can talk about.
This topic was raised about 1 year ago -->here<-- (CI menu support for all Twinhan, TerraTec and TechniSat tuners uses the same code). I did some work with FreakyJ to try and fix the feature but without a tuner it was very difficult to test. I bought a Skystar 2 HD (Cinery S2 clone) a couple of months ago to enable me to fix the feature and provide better support for Twinhan, Terratec and TechniSat. Unfortunately it didn't come with a CI interface so I was watching Ebay.de for the last few months to get a good deal. I finally managed to buy one for a reasonable price about 1 month ago and it arrived last week. I'm working on the problem right now.

Thanks for the help so far!

No problem.

Do you think I would be better of with an other tuner card, Digital Devics for example?

Possibly, but I should say that there is no guarantee that you would not experience the same problems. CAM compatibility can be a problem for all tuners. If you can try other non-official CAMs or different software first before resorting to buying a new CAM then I think that would be a very good thing.

Any suggestions for other software to try to replicate the error?

You could definitely try DVBViewer (free trial) - I use that as well as their TransEdit tool for testing outside of TV Server. I find it to be very reliable for tuning although I have not really tested it heavily with CI/CAM functions. You could also try the ForTheRecord TV engine called Argus. I have not tested that myself but at least it would allow you to stay with MP while you test. Of course I am very interested to hear your results. If there is some sort of problem with TV Server then I at least want to know about it even if I don't know how to try to fix it.

mm

 

[paalkr]

Hi again

Hmmm.. I'm nut sure if I like that answer Getting support from Terratec seems much harder than getting support from the MP team

I never like to have to give such an answer as I really do want to be able to help. Unfortunately I really don't know of any way to investigate further for you. I don't have an H7 or the same CAM as you which makes it difficult...

Is the CI menu in TV config settings suppose to give me some information? Currently I dont get any CI menu at all in MP. Can this point to something in MP?

Now that is one thing that I can talk about.
This topic was raised about 1 year ago -->here<-- (CI menu support for all Twinhan, TerraTec and TechniSat tuners uses the same code). I did some work with FreakyJ to try and fix the feature but without a tuner it was very difficult to test. I bought a Skystar 2 HD (Cinery S2 clone) a couple of months ago to enable me to fix the feature and provide better support for Twinhan, Terratec and TechniSat. Unfortunately it didn't come with a CI interface so I was watching Ebay.de for the last few months to get a good deal. I finally managed to buy one for a reasonable price about 1 month ago and it arrived last week. I'm working on the problem right now.


No problem.

Do you think I would be better of with an other tuner card, Digital Devics for example?

Possibly, but I should say that there is no guarantee that you would not experience the same problems. CAM compatibility can be a problem for all tuners. If you can try other non-official CAMs or different software first before resorting to buying a new CAM then I think that would be a very good thing.

Any suggestions for other software to try to replicate the error?

You could definitely try DVBViewer (free trial) - I use that as well as their TransEdit tool for testing outside of TV Server. I find it to be very reliable for tuning although I have not really tested it heavily with CI/CAM functions. You could also try the ForTheRecord TV engine called Argus. I have not tested that myself but at least it would allow you to stay with MP while you test. Of course I am very interested to hear your results. If there is some sort of problem with TV Server then I at least want to know about it even if I don't know how to try to fix it.

mm

Hi!

First of all!

I will try out the trial version of DVB viewer to see if the same issues are present.

If you need any assistance in testing the CI menu implementation you are working on, just let me know. I will for sure participate with testing and give feedback if you like.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm able to try other CAM modules because
1) I don't have any other CAM modules
2) My provider uses Conax CAS7 with pairing, and they wont pair a key card with unofficial CAM modules.

Regards,
PK

 

[paalkr]

Hi Again!

I have found a thread over at the DVB logic board where someone describes the exact same issue! Please have a look at this thread DVBLogic &bull; View topic - Terratec H7: Decryption stops working after idle time

In this case the situation was resolved by disabling a DVBlogic setting called "stop stream while idle". This sounds familiar to the pause/stop feature in MP TV server settings. unfortunately it doesn't do exactly the same, as the tuner stops the stream in booth cases for MP. Is it possible to specify that MP should not end the stream on one particular tuner, as long as the TV service is running? creating a timeshift file is not necessary, I think, if no one actually is using the tuner for watching TV. Just keeping the tuner "alive" seems to be sufficient.

Regards,
PK

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again paalkr

I have found a thread over at the DVB logic board where someone describes the exact same issue! Please have a look at this thread DVBLogic &bull; View topic - Terratec H7: Decryption stops working after idle time

In this case the situation was resolved by disabling a DVBlogic setting called "stop stream while idle". This sounds familiar to the pause/stop feature in MP TV server settings. unfortunately it doesn't do exactly the same, as the tuner stops the stream in booth cases for MP. Is it possible to specify that MP should not end the stream on one particular tuner, as long as the TV service is running? creating a timeshift file is not necessary, I think, if no one actually is using the tuner for watching TV. Just keeping the tuner "alive" seems to be sufficient.

I'm sorry to shatter your hopes, but actually TV Server already supports exactly that solution automatically... but only when you use "stop card". If you use "pause card" then the graph really is paused and this may cause the problem, which is why I *always* recommend using "stop card" except in exceptional circumstances. I had always wondered why the code was there and now I know.

mm

 

[paalkr]

Hi again paalkr

I have found a thread over at the DVB logic board where someone describes the exact same issue! Please have a look at this thread DVBLogic &bull; View topic - Terratec H7: Decryption stops working after idle time

In this case the situation was resolved by disabling a DVBlogic setting called "stop stream while idle". This sounds familiar to the pause/stop feature in MP TV server settings. unfortunately it doesn't do exactly the same, as the tuner stops the stream in booth cases for MP. Is it possible to specify that MP should not end the stream on one particular tuner, as long as the TV service is running? creating a timeshift file is not necessary, I think, if no one actually is using the tuner for watching TV. Just keeping the tuner "alive" seems to be sufficient.

I'm sorry to shatter your hopes, but actually TV Server already supports exactly that solution automatically... but only when you use "stop card". If you use "pause card" then the graph really is paused and this may cause the problem, which is why I *always* recommend using "stop card" except in exceptional circumstances. I had always wondered why the code was there and now I know.

mm

Hmm, then this is issue even stranger because as long as I'm watching any encrypted channel, the tuner works perfectly. I can zap between channels and watch TV for "as long as I like", without any issues. First after stopping live TV for like 2-5 minutes, the issue occur.

So what you are saying regarding the intention of pause/stop card is certainly correct (I have no doubt that that you know the code, I for sure don't ), but something is happening with the tuner when the card is stopped (stop live TV). Otherwise the error wouldn't occur as long as it works perfect while in use, agree? As long as a timeshift file is written everything is ok, but when the card is stopped (and the graph retained, if I understood you correct) and no timeshift file is written, something happens.

I have tried turning off all power management features that could interfere with USB, without any luck. Would a new log file with a higher log level give you guys any more hints?

Anything else I can do? Or are you suggesting that in my particular case (setup and hardware), the terratec H7 card is not supported by MP?

I really hope that it is possible to sort at the issue, do yo know if anybody successfully are using terratec H7 (including CAM) with MP?

Regards,
PK