TV Client Live TV Freeze (2 Viewers)

[spar1grep]

MediaPortal Version: 1.1.2.0
MediaPortal Skin: StreamedMP 1.1.0.0
Windows Version: Windows 7 Ultimate x86
CPU Type: AMD Phenom FX5000 4x 2.2Ghz
HDD: Seagate ST3500820AS & Western Digital WD400BD-75MRA1
Memory: 4096MB
Motherboard: ASUS M48785-M
Video Card: ATI Radeon HD4200
Video Card Driver: 8.791.0.0
Sound Card: ATI HDMI Audio
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver: 6.0.1.7900
1. TV Card: WinTV PVR 250
1. TV Card Type: Analog
1. TV Card Driver: 1.18.21.23257
2. TV Card: WinTV PVR 350
2. TV Card Type: Analog
2. TV Card Driver: 1.18.21.23257
3. TV Card:
3. TV Card Type:
3. TV Card Driver:
4. TV Card:
4. TV Card Type:
4. TV Card Driver:
MPEG2 Video Codec: Hauppage WinTV PVR PCI II
MPEG2 Audio Codec: Klite Codec Pack 6.6.0 (Full)
h.264 Video Codec: Klite Codec Pack 6.6.0 (Full)
Satelite/CableTV Provider: Virgin
HTPC Case: NA
Cooling: 2 x 12cm Case Fan, 1 x ProFreeze CPU
Power Supply: OCZ 600watt
Remote: Generic RC6
TV: Hanspree Xv-S
TV - HTPC Connection: Composite

Hello All,

I have just completed a hardware refresh and total OS/MP installation rebuild for my multi-seat TV server. Everything works great with the exception of Live TV, within seconds but at the very most a few minutes the Live TV feed will stop, communication does not appear to be lost with the TV Server the feed just freezes. I have ruled out it being a client OS issue as the freeze occurs on both the single-seat TV Server and the multi-seat clients both of which use a different OS (the client uses Windows XP SP3, TV Server as above). I am not sure if the freeze is a TV Server software configuration problem or if it is hardware related (although I tried both of my WinTV PCI cards to rule out it being a card fault).

Please please please could somebody take a log at my logs attached and give me an idea what is going wrong, I love MediaPortal and I have been using it since the 0.1 days and want to carry on using it as it is the ONLY solution that has a decent multi-seat design.

If you need anymore information then please feel free to PM me.

Cheers.

Gary.

 

[spar1grep]

Well I am getting nowhere here, been testing all night and looking at every log file MP generates, cannot find a thing no errors I can see it all looks as though MP is doing it's job as far as debug logging goes. The TV feed just stops after around 45 seconds to 1 minute, no report of a loss of TV feed or TV server stopped or no audio/video detected message just the last frame is displayed and then nothing. Turning off the TV and back on resolves the problem for another 45 seconds or so, changing channel does the same.

I did read a old thread from a SVN build for 1.0.2 where this issue happened and by the looks of it it maybe something to do with the TV card not being kept alive but no information on how to force the card to keep alive or even how to confirm that is the case?

As per usual only the MP people can help and looks like I just not 'community' enough to get some attention. MP is a great product but it is let down by the lack of support for it, only (it appears based on the answered threads v ignored threads) a small few have the knowledge to read the debug log files so you gotta be in the know with somebody who knows somebody in the Dev Team to get technical problems resolved. Makes them kind of useless.

I really hope that the code behind MP 2 is better so that all errors are trapped and that something is done to detect the errors occurring on the interaction between the TV Client and TV Server rather then having just two error messages (TV Server Communication Lost and No Audio/Video Detected) and the rest of problems resulting in just a freeze of picture.

Is support only based on how much you have donated I am guessing?

 

[porky996t]

I would like to be able to help, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to suggest any solutions. Sorry.

I was having a freezing problem with both server and client over the weekend...however, I cannot seem to replicate this now no matter what I try to do.

I have no doubt that you will get a solution, it just takes a few days for those who know to see the post and answer.


Good luck.



M.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi there

I saw this thread yesterday at work, then when I got home I couldn't find it again! I'll email a link to myself this time...
(Will take a look at your logs when I get home - 3 hours or so...)

 

[pilehave]

Does it happen with recordings too, or just live TV?

And no, support is based on how much info you supply, and waiting more than just a day or two. Since you supplied your log files I'm sure someone will help. Your state in your system specs that your MPEG2 audio codec and your H.264 video codec is a codec pack. That's not really possible, what is selected as codec in MP Configuration?

 

[mm1352000]

Wow!
After taking the time to read your 2nd post I have to say that I am disinclined to help you. I've been using MP since around version 0.2.3, but I've only just joined the team in the last 2 weeks or so. There is so much more to be done than you might think, what with team communication, bug fixing, supporting users, testing other team members' patches, documentation... its like a full time job. I've been spending at least 2 hours a day doing that stuff. Double that on Saturdays and Sundays. Of course this is all around my normal full-time job, study, and life. If you want to take potshots at members of the team for not providing support to you within a certain number of days then I challenge you to try helping other users! There is only so much time in the day. Trust me when I say that as a team we are doing our best to keep all the balls in the air. We help who we can, when we can - it is not based on donations or anything else like that!!!

Enough about that - let's try and solve your problem. Have these issues only been happening since you started using 1.1.2, and were you using 1.1.1, 1.1.0 or 1.0.2 before 1.1.2?
It is not clear exactly what is happening from your logs, mostly because it looks like the TV Server is being asked to stop timeshifting. I'm going to put together a debug version of TV Server for you to try, but in the meantime can you please do the following:

1. Stop any live TV and recordings (wait until it is convenient to do this of course).
2. Delete your MediaPortal and TV Server logs.
3. Tune to one channel and then leave MP alone until TV stops.
4. Immediately after that, post your logs here.

Please also answer pilehave's question about whether it occurs with recordings too. That is important.

 

[spar1grep]

@porky996t : Yeah I saw your thread about having problems, and lots of others reporting tv client freezes but many never seem to have a conclusive resolution or even a method to diagnose the freeze except to put the log files up here and hope that somebody else knows what is going on, this is my bug bear about MP that the Wiki etc needs a lot more work done to it so that people can find out how to diagnose problems and find out to use the other useful problem diagnosis tools (i.e. GraphEdit). My thoughts are that maybe MP Devs should take a 6 month feature/development freeze and concentrate on the support aspect by producing a lot more information so that we can all access resources on how the components fit together and how to fix problems? I think if people are able to find the information themselves to resolve the problems that occur the takeup of this product is going to be far higher which means more resources can be invested in making this a far superior product to it's only real competitor (MCE).

@mm1320000 : That would be excellent as I cannot find a thing wrong during my testing last night, the only possible issue I found was one of the logs reporting consistent frame drops which lead me onto the other thread about the 1.02 SVN which didnt really come up with a conclusion on the cause and how to resolve it.

@pilehave : I have not made any recordings to test, but good idea I will try to record a program and play it back tonight. Re the Codecs, I have KLite Codec Pack installed in the Codecs section I tried using WinTV PCI Decoder for the MPEG2 Codec, the default Gabest based MPEG2 Codec and also FFMPEG. The WinTV PCI Decoder Codec is probably the best quality but none of them resolve the problem. I stated KLite Codec Pack as the MPEG2 Audio Codec as the Codecs section does not display what Codec is being used for the MPEG2 audio stream and I am not sure if I choose for example the WinTV PCI Decoder for the MPEG 2 video codec does that mean that same decoder is used for the MPEG 2 Audio stream as I thought that was the point of seperating the Video and Audio aspects of a multimedia format file so that you could use different codecs for the audio and video streams?

Wow!
After taking the time to read your 2nd post I have to say that I am disinclined to help you. I've been using MP since around version 0.2.3, but I've only just joined the team in the last 2 weeks or so. There is so much more to be done than you might think, what with team communication, bug fixing, supporting users, testing other team members' patches, documentation... its like a full time job. I've been spending at least 2 hours a day doing that stuff. Double that on Saturdays and Sundays. Of course this is all around my normal full-time job, study, and life. If you want to take potshots at members of the team for not providing support to you within a certain number of days then I challenge you to try helping other users! There is only so much time in the day. Trust me when I say that as a team we are doing our best to keep all the balls in the air. We help who we can, when we can - it is not based on donations or anything else like that!!!

Enough about that - let's try and solve your problem. Have these issues only been happening since you started using 1.1.2, and were you using 1.1.1, 1.1.0 or 1.0.2 before 1.1.2?
It is not clear exactly what is happening from your logs, mostly because it looks like the TV Server is being asked to stop timeshifting. I'm going to put together a debug version of TV Server for you to try, but in the meantime can you please do the following:

1. Stop any live TV and recordings (wait until it is convenient to do this of course).
2. Delete your MediaPortal and TV Server logs.
3. Tune to one channel and then leave MP alone until TV stops.
4. Immediately after that, post your logs here.

Please also answer pilehave's question about whether it occurs with recordings too. That is important.

OK the post was strong, and you can make your own choice to help (I am grateful you looked over my rant and decided to help anyway), and that is my point the knowledge about how MediaPortal works and how to diagnose problems is I feel closed off to only those people who develop the product so you have to rely on others to provide a solution to a problem. One of the core principles behind Open Source (that I understand) is that everybody acts as a community and information is propergated, yet I see that the way these forums work is that people such as yoursleves are relied upon because the information needed to for example debug a log file is not available to anybody but those who know the product and it's design so people post a log file and if your lucky you get a response that says, OK disable this setting in MP, then the response is great that worked thanks, but if we knew why that setting needed to be disabled and why that error occurred it could help in the future with other problems. That is the context of my whinging post, and as you can see from the response I posted as you posted your second response I feel the lack of design documentation and information on how to use the utilities available to try and figure out common problems is what lets the product down. I see the only way based on the content of the MP site that I can find to know how MP works and how a TV freeze occurs is to learn the language the product was written in so you can look at the source code, thats too big a job for many people, which is why in IT you have layers of (i.e. Users, Helpdesk, Infrastructure, Developer), we seem to have a Users straight to Developer support system. I understand that you do a lot and contribute to MP and boy I wish I could help and contribute too and help others with problems as I love this software but it is a catch 22 situation, in order to be able to help others as the policy is to upload log files and if the information on how to use log files to be able to resolve a problem is not there then how can somebody who is outside of the dev environment help? The software has a ton of features and settings which I feel the Wiki does not go into enough depth to explain the setting and it's effect. To be able to contribute to MP forums I need to be able to move from the User to Helpdesk stage but the information I feel is not available on the MP site to be able to do that.

I did downgrade to 1.1.1 last night to rule out it being a a 1.1.2 issue and the same happened, thanks for the offer of putting a debug version togethor but for fear of saying again 'see what I mean' and I apologise if it annoys you but why is a special debug version not available to download so that we can progress ourselves diagnosing a problem?

 

[mm1352000]

...the Wiki etc needs a lot more work done to it so that people can find out how to diagnose problems and find out to use the other useful problem diagnosis tools (i.e. GraphEdit)...

The wiki is still really new. Give us some time and it will improve. I hear you loud and clear, however GraphEdit/GraphStudio are just too complicated for a lot of users...

Re the Codecs, I have KLite Codec Pack installed in the Codecs section I tried using WinTV PCI Decoder for the MPEG2 Codec, the default Gabest based MPEG2 Codec and also FFMPEG.

I'd recommend only using the MPC video/audio codecs as a last resort.

The WinTV PCI Decoder Codec is probably the best quality but none of them resolve the problem. I stated KLite Codec Pack as the MPEG2 Audio Codec as the Codecs section does not display what Codec is being used for the MPEG2 audio stream and I am not sure if I choose for example the WinTV PCI Decoder for the MPEG 2 video codec does that mean that same decoder is used for the MPEG 2 Audio stream as I thought that was the point of seperating the Video and Audio aspects of a multimedia format file so that you could use different codecs for the audio and video streams?

No, the video codec isn't used as the audio codec. You need to select one. I'm surprised you get any audio at all if there is nothing selected there!

 

[mm1352000]

...and that is my point the knowledge about how MediaPortal works and how to diagnose problems is I feel closed off to only those people who develop the product so you have to rely on others to provide a solution to a problem. One of the core principles behind Open Source (that I understand) is that everybody acts as a community and information is propergated, yet I see that the way these forums work is that people such as yoursleves are relied upon because the information needed to for example debug a log file is not available to anybody but those who know the product and it's design so people post a log file and if your lucky you get a response that says, OK disable this setting in MP, then the response is great that worked thanks, but if we knew why that setting needed to be disabled and why that error occurred it could help in the future with other problems.

I get what you're saying. We as developers aren't closing the door by any means. The code is there if you want it. In my opinion, jumping into the code couldn't be made much easier. Two months ago I didn't know C# (the language MP is written in) and I had never bothered to look at the code; now I'm part of the team. The learning curve is steep and the developers really don't have time to stop and write documentation that will just drift out of date in a year or so. Users have to make some effort too. For example, I believe users can contribute to the wiki. Open source is more about the ability to make your own modifications if you want. A community often develops around that, but this only happens when both the developers and users make a conscientious effort to support each other.

I see the only way based on the content of the MP site that I can find to know how MP works and how a TV freeze occurs is to learn the language the product was written in so you can look at the source code, thats too big a job for many people, which is why in IT you have layers of (i.e. Users, Helpdesk, Infrastructure, Developer), we seem to have a Users straight to Developer support system.

How big do you think the team is. Just at a guess?

...in order to be able to help others as the policy is to upload log files and if the information on how to use log files to be able to resolve a problem is not there then how can somebody who is outside of the dev environment help?

Yes that is the policy, but only because the developers can do very little based on imprecise descriptions of problems that the users provide. Logs are meant as an aid to us to diagnose and pinpoint complex problems. I think they are quite readable, however only reading the code makes them completely understandable. My impression is that you are asking for a basic outline of how MediaPortal/TV Server does what it does. Some of this can be understood from the logs. Some parts are complete black boxes. Perhaps a fair point...

...thanks for the offer of putting a debug version togethor but for fear of saying again 'see what I mean' and I apologise if it annoys you but why is a special debug version not available to download so that we can progress ourselves diagnosing a problem?

It doesn't annoy me. I'm making a special debug version so I can try and understand your specific problem. In many cases the log files tell me enough, but this case is weird and I need more than what the logs can tell me. Futher, the area of code where I'm guessing the problem is occurring is unfamiliar to me so I'm learning my way around it as I try and help you. The extra debug output I add would be completely useless for anyone who doesn't have the same problem as you or that is using a different version of MP to you.

 

[spar1grep]

mm1352000

OK, thanks for being considerate to my frustrations, as many IT bods sometimes I flame before I should, accept my apologies. I thought the MP team was around 10-20 people for some reason. Anyway I have spent a good few hours testing MP today to try and determine the cause of the issue I have, I have generated numerous log files which should be attached to the posts in this thread. I tested each and every codec available under the TV Codecs tab in MP to try and determine a pattern, the pattern I have noticed that the time it takes for the Live TV steam to freeze seems to change radically depending on the decoder codec used. For all the tests I performed I ran MP in Debug mode to rule out it being a plugin that is causing the problem. The test consisted of the following stages.

1. Delete the files from the MP and TV Server log file folders.
2. Stop TV Service.
3. Change the codec within the TV section of the Codecs & Rendorers section of MP configuration.
4. Repeat step 1.
5. Start MP in Debug Mode.
6. Watch Live TV.
5. At the point that Live TV freezes, copy the log files from the MP and TV Server log files folders.
6. Close down MP and let the Watchdog generate the log zip file.
7. Stop the TV server.
8. Delete the files in the MP and TV Server log files folder.
9. Start MP in Debug Mode.
10. Perform a manual recording for a period of 4 minutes (well between 4:00 and 4:15 minutes), timed from when the REC icon is shown in the TV Client screen.
12. Stop the manual recording.
13. At the point that the recording is stopped, copy the log files from the MP and TV Server log files folders.
14. Close down MP and let the Watchdog generate the log zip file.
15. Stop the TV server.
16. Delete the files in the MP and TV Server log files folder.
17. Start MP in Debug Mode.
18. Replay the recording to determine if the time it plays for matches around 4:00 to 4:15 minutes.
19. At the point that the recording is stopped, copy the log files from the MP and TV Server log files folders.
20. Close down MP and let the Watchdog generate the log zip file.
21. Stop the TV server.
22. Delete the files in the MP and TV Server log files folder.

Well only one of the recordings ran for around the same amount of time that I recorded for, but I think this was luck you can work out the exact timings as a result of the steps used above. I tried the following codec combinations:

WinTV PVR PCI II Video/ffdshow Audio Decoder = Usually lasts around 45 seconds to one minute in Live TV, the recording lasted about 2-4 seconds. I did try and use the combination WinTV PVR PCI II Video/WinTV MPEG 2 Muxer, Win TV PVR PCI II for both the Audio and Video decoder and WinTV MPEG 2 Muxer for both the Audio and Video decoder but these combinations reported they were unable to read the transport stream and/or no audio/video detected.

Intervideo Non CSS Decoder for Hauppaauge for both Audio and Video decoders = Usually lasts around 45 seconds to one minute in Live TV, the recording lasted about 2-4 seconds.

FFDShow for both the Audio and Video decoders = This one seemed to last around 2 - 3 minutes in both Live TV and Recorded TV.

MPC MPEG for both the Audio and Video decoders = This one seemed to last around 1 - 2 minutes in both Live TV and Recorded TV.

MS DTV-DVD Video Decoder for both the Audio and Video decoders = This one was the best of the lot (no surprise there it is MS after all ;-) the Live TV stream lasted around 3-4 minutes and I believe the Recorded TV played to the end of the four minute sample.

From these tests can I rule out it being a driver/hardware issue as the card seems to be doing it's job and the time frame that Live TV/Recorded TV works seems to be dependant on what codec is used? I did try and use the WinTV application it's self to determine if the card did fail after a period of time, but I cannot get the application to work and show me my SVideo/RCA input stream which I feel maybe due to having a 250 and 300 card in the same machine (the application possibly cannot handle two cards using the same drivers?). One question I also have is that when you use the preview button within the TV server, does that make a direct connection to the hardware so to speak or does it still stick the MPEG 2 Transport Stream in the middle before it shows you what is being displayed on the channel as if it does not use the Transport Stream I can use it to rule out it being hardware/driver related?

I hope this helps, and thanks for being so helpful despite my verbal frustration.

Cheers.

Gary.