Any way to change refresh rate to 1080i25? (1 Viewer)

lisag

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    I have recently realised that recorded TV files look better when played back at 1080i25.

    Is there any way that MediaPortal can auto select this resolution / refresh rate using the built in refresh rate changer, I have an Nvidia GTX 1050 card.

    Thanks

    lisa
     

    mm1352000

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    Hi Lisa

    Yes, the refresh rate changer should work for setting the refresh rate with TV (as well as videos) regardless of which GPU you have. I think all you need to do is enable it. The default configuration is probably okay.

    As for resolution: MP does not change the resolution. 1080i should be automatically scaled up or down to match your desktop/display resolution.
     

    lisag

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    Thanks for the reply. I don't think I explained the issue fully enough, sorry about that.

    The default resolution / refresh rate is 1080p50. The refresh rate changer does it's thing and everything looks smooth at 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60 etc.

    BUT, for my recorded TV files that are UK HD Freeview DVB-T2 .ts files from Argus TV, they look much better if played back at 1080i25. So, I would really like MediaPortal to change the resolution and refresh rate from 1080p50 to 1080i25 just for these files.

    is this possible? Maybe via a script or plug in or some other workaround?

    lisa
     

    azzuro

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    hello lisag,
    i tried this previously, ( don't ask me, how, i don't remember )
    my issue was lot of frames dropped on the debug renderer ( Ctrl + ! ), surely due to the interlaced not fully supported by my GPU, so for me is to keep 1080p50 for 25i stream.
     

    CyberSimian

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    for my recorded TV files that are UK HD Freeview DVB-T2 .ts files from Argus TV, they look much better if played back at 1080i25.
    You have not said in what way they look better! :confused:

    A common problem with HTPCs is jerky scrolling and panning of HD content. Jerky scrolling is easily noticeable on programme credits that scroll vertically, and on tickertape newsfeeds that scroll horizontally. Jerky panning is easily noticeable when the camera pans horizontally across the scene. Is this the problem that you have?

    This problem was much discussed at www.TheGreenButton.tv with respect to WMC, and is usually attributed to the TV datastream switching frequently between 50i and 25p, and the graphics adapter not being able to switch rapidly enough to remain synchronised. I have noticed this with some HD TV in the UK when using MP (but not with SD TV).

    The info display on my Sony TV displays the datastream type (576i, 1080i, 1080p), and it can be quite instructive to watch a series of advertisements on ITV using the TV directly (not via MP). Some of the adverts switch rapidly between 1080i and 1080p, often many times within a single advert (usually at the points where the scene transitions occur). The graphics chips in my Sony TV have no difficulty remaining synchronised, so there is no jerky scrolling or panning of HD material visible on the Sony.

    I have noticed this problem with some HD programmes viewed via MP (the spooky serial "Remember Me" has a particularly bad segment at one point; I have retained a clip as a test file). I tried various settings to find a cure. The ones that eventually worked for me (with the graphics adpater that I have) are:

    LAV Settings:
    "De-interlacing mode" set to: "Force"
    "Hardware decoder" set to: DXVA2 (native)

    In "MP Config", click "Codecs and Renderer", then click the tab that you want to set ("TV Codecs" presumably), and then click the spanner icon for each of the different video types. Then you can set the de-interlacing mode and hardware decoder. I have these settings for all of the other tabs too, but I am not sure that that is necessary (which tab does recorded TV use?).

    Actually, when I was trying different settings, it was all a bit "hit and miss", so I hope that I have remembered correctly what it was I altered in order to get an acceptable result.

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK
     

    lisag

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    Crikey, that's a reply, thanks you for all that info.

    I have tried those settings in LAV actually (along with every other combination of settings) and haven't been able to hit upon a combination that looks as good as just changing the refresh rate to 1080i25. I obviously can't keep the refresh rate at that, as the other files will playback incorrectly and the GUI is horrible to use at that setting.

    My TV does switch to the 1080i mode itself when watching TV using the inbuilt tuner.

    I am also using Plex at the moment, and their new Plex Media Player does auto switch to 1080i25 for these files, and they look much better. But Plex has other issues so I am still using MediaPortal as well.

    You are spot on with your explanation of the issue. BBC News HD with the scrolling news at the bottom highlights the issue very well, the scrolling text is jagged / blurred / has lines in that flick on and off. When the resolution is set to 1080i, it looks spot on.

    In the refresh rate changer in MP1 there is an 'Action' box. I was hoping that there was some command line type instruction that I could type in there telling it to switch the TV to 1080i25. But I think that may be wishful thinking :(
     

    mm1352000

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    So, I would really like MediaPortal to change the resolution and refresh rate from 1080p50 to 1080i25 just for these files.
    People usually describe what you're calling 1080i25 as 1080i50.

    The resolution of 1080i is still 1920x1080 like 1080p. It's just that each field has half the vertical resolution. Two fields make a frame, so the overall frame rate is 25 frames per second... but the refresh rate should be 50 Hz to match the field rate.

    Given the explanation above, the correct resolutions and refresh rates for 1080p50 and "1080i25" are the same when the PC does the deinterlacing. That's why the "PAL" and "PALHD" entries in MP's default refresh rate changer config are the same (50 Hz). From that perspective what you're asking/saying doesn't make any sense to me.

    ...as just changing the refresh rate to 1080i25.
    Without meaning to be picky, 1080i25 is not a refresh rate. 50 Hz is a refresh rate. The 1080 part is the vertical resolution, and the i part indicates that the video is interlaced. You probably know this... but for clarity's sake it helps to use standard terminology.

    My TV does switch to the 1080i mode itself when watching TV using the inbuilt tuner.
    Yes... but this is not particularly relevant unless you've specifically configured your PC and TV in such a way that the TV handles deinterlacing for the PC input. That would be quite unusual. In most setups the PC handles deinterlacing and the TV sees a progressive (opposite of interlaced) signal at a fixed resolution. For example, the TV would see 1080p instead of 1080i for a 1080i channel or video. The video codec and/or GPU handle conversion.

    You are spot on with your explanation of the issue. BBC News HD with the scrolling news at the bottom highlights the issue very well, the scrolling text is jagged / blurred / has lines in that flick on and off. When the resolution is set to 1080i, it looks spot on.
    Sounds like you've somehow managed to disable automatic deinterlacing on the PC side and are trying compensate with a setting on the TV side. I'd recommend to focus on the deinterlacing settings on the PC; the resolution and refresh rate stuff is a red herring.

    In the refresh rate changer in MP1 there is an 'Action' box. I was hoping that there was some command line type instruction that I could type in there telling it to switch the TV to 1080i25. But I think that may be wishful thinking :(
    Mmmm, it's either wishful thinking or confusion. ;)
    MP can only control the PC's output refresh rate; it can't do anything about the TV settings.
    If you have managed to disable deinterlacing on the PC side, the only way to solve it from the TV side would be to have the TV auto-detect the correct mode (resolution, refresh rate, interlaced/progressive). A single non-auto setting value couldn't give you good results for all sources. But again, my recommendation is to fix this on the PC side with appropriate deinterlacing settings, not to be thinking about the TV side.
     

    lisag

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    Hi, wowser, long explanations, thanks for the time taken , but I think we are over engineering a little. It is a fairly simple issue.

    So, deinterlacing is all working fine.

    Refresh rate changing is all working fine.

    If i manually go into my Nvidia card settings and switch the resolution / refresh rate setting to 1920 x 1080i @ 25hz, my live and recorded tv files look better. Mostly visible on news tickers and scrolling text / credits. I just wondered if there was a way to automate that in MediaPortal?

    If I manually switch my graphics card to 1920 x 1080 interlaced, the only refresh rate available is 25 hz. So 1080i50 is not an option.

    My TV in the lounge is a new(ish) Sony 55 inch LCD, and when watching TV using it's inbuilt tuner, it does switch to 1080i mode itself, and TV looks better than through MediaPortal.
    I also have an older Panasonic Plasma in the kitchen, which does the exact same thing, with the same results.
    Whilst trialling some new software (Plex Media Player) I see that it auto switches the PC output to 1080i25 for these recorded TV files.

    Maybe it is something UK based?

    Sorry if I have not used the exact correct terminology, I am a social worker who is a PC / HTPC hobbyist, but hopefully I have explained myself correctly and you understand my issue?

    I think the answer to my original question in post 1 then, is 'No'?

    lisa
     

    mm1352000

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    Hi, wowser, long explanations, thanks for the time taken , but I think we are over engineering a little.
    This suggests you don't trust/believe me. :(
    Ultimately that's your prerogative... but why reach out for help if you're not going to take the well-meaning advice that's offered, right?

    So, deinterlacing is all working fine.
    Two simple questions:
    1. How do you know this?
    2. Do you know what the video would look like if deinterlacing were not working?

    If i manually go into my Nvidia card settings and switch the resolution / refresh rate setting to 1920 x 1080i @ 25hz, my live and recorded tv files look better.
    To me this is a strong indication that deinterlacing is not working fine.

    Normally that 1080i @ 25 Hz setting should not (I'd almost go so far as to say "never"!) be used. Instead you should be choosing 1920 x 1080p @ 50 Hz. If that 1080p @ 50 Hz setting doesn't look good, it's an indication of deinterlacing problems. The solution to those deinterlacing problems is not to attempt to work around the problems by selecting 1080i @ 25 Hz. Rather, it's to recognise the problems for what they are and tackle them head on.

    I just wondered if there was a way to automate that in MediaPortal?
    There's not... and as I said above, selecting that 1080i @ 25 Hz option is not a good solution for the problem you're facing. Yes it might give you good looking live and recorded TV, but as you said yourself, it doesn't work out for other non-1080i videos.

    If I manually switch my graphics card to 1920 x 1080 interlaced, the only refresh rate available is 25 hz. So 1080i50 is not an option.
    Of course. That's 100% expected.
    What you're doing when you do that is setting the PC output to 1080i. That's a really really unusual thing to do. Normally people would set the PC output to 1920 x 1080 progressive. There will be a corresponding 50 Hz selection when you select 1080p.

    My TV in the lounge is a new(ish) Sony 55 inch LCD, and when watching TV using it's inbuilt tuner, it does switch to 1080i mode itself...
    Of course. I'd expect nothing less. However behaviour with the inbuilt tuner should differ from behaviour with a PC connection.

    ...and TV looks better than through MediaPortal.
    That's not surprising if deinterlacing is not working with MediaPortal.

    I also have an older Panasonic Plasma in the kitchen, which does the exact same thing, with the same results.
    Again, that's not surprising... and it should tell you that the problem is with the PC settings.

    Whilst trialling some new software (Plex Media Player) I see that it auto switches the PC output to 1080i25 for these recorded TV files.
    How do you know this?

    Maybe it is something UK based?
    I strongly doubt it.

    Sorry if I have not used the exact correct terminology, I am a social worker who is a PC / HTPC hobbyist, but hopefully I have explained myself correctly and you understand my issue?
    No need to apologise. :)
    I think I understand your issue, but you're telling me that I'm "over engineering a little", so it seems you think I don't understand. I guess you have to decide whether to trust me/us or not.

    I think the answer to my original question in post 1 then, is 'No'?
    Yes it's no, as I confirmed above... but as I also said, in my opinion your original question is the wrong question to be asking in response to what you're seeing.


    If you want to make progress in the long run I'd suggest we step back a bit in the short term. It would be really helpful to have log files:
    1. Close MP.
    2. Set 1920 x 1080 p @ 50 Hz in NVidia control panel and on the TV if possible/relevant.
    3. Start the MP Watchdog tool.
    4. Select option 2 (since you're using Argus) and click proceed.
    5. Demonstrate the problem by viewing 1 minute of any of your recordings.
    6. Close MP. This should trigger the Watchdog to produce a tidy zip file containing all the relevant log files.
    Please attach ("upload a file") the zip file produced by the Watchdog to your next reply. If you can, it would also be really helpful if you could attach a short video (cellphone?) showing the problem on your TV during step 5.
     

    lisag

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    Hi @mm1352000 Thanks again for your time, of course I do believe you, but it seems that you do not believe me :(

    All I am saying is that if I manually change the PC output to 1080i25, then TV files look better. You are saying that they shouldn't and if they do then something on my PC is broken.

    I will try and get all of that evidence together to prove to you that my issue is real and valid, might take a little time though.

    Just to reply to one of your points above, with Plex Media Player, I know that it has switched to 1080i25 as I can press i during video playback and get all of the stats up as an overlay.
     

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