Channel Changing speeds (1 Viewer)

[htpcoz]

I'm having similar problems with extremely long channel change times. I've found that this has come about since I moved from my old DNTV live card to a new DVICO Dual Digital 4 card.

As with most people the DVICO software has extremely fast channel change ~2 seconds, however MP is generally very poor at 10-20 seconds. I can't see anything obvious in the logs that contribute to these delays, there seem to be a number of things all spread out by seconds each, no one item to identify as the culprit so far as I can see.

MediaPortal Version: 0.2.2.0 SVN Build 12842 (although has been this way for some time)
Skin: Blue 2 wide
Windows Version: Windows XP SP2, .NET 2.0
CPU Type: Intel Core 2 2.4GHz
HDD: Seagate 320GB 7200.10
Memory: 1G 677 MHZ
Motherboard: Intel
Motherboard Chipset: G965
Motherboard Bios:
Video Card: Nvidia 7600GT
Video Card Driver: 91.47
Sound Card: Integrated Azalia
Sound Card AC3:
Sound Card Driver:
1. TV Card: DVICO Dual Digital 4
1. TV Card Type: DVB-T
1. TV Card Driver: 3.50.02
2. TV Card: Hauppauge 150 MCE
2. TV Card Type: Analog
2. TV Card Driver: 2.0.43.24103
MPEG2 Video Codec: Nvidia Purevideo
MPEG2 Audio Codec: NVidia Purevideo
Satelite/CableTV Provider:
HTPC Case: Antec Fusion
Cooling:
Power Supply:
Remote: Microsoft MCE
TV: Panasonic CRT
TV - HTPC Connection: VGA->Component transcoder

Attached is a log file from startup that shows some of the delays I'm seeing...

From pressing "Live TV" after starting to the channel appearing is 20 seconds
The first channel change takes 17 seconds, the third around 7, the fourth 14 seconds, and then 17, and 18.

So pretty consistently very long. This is with timeshifting enabled. Disabling improves things by a couple of seconds, but still not much good. Changing the codec has not impact from what I can see.

Can someone look at the attached log, and see if there is anything obviously wrong with this configuration? I struggle to believe that the card could be this bad (especially considering their on BDA based app is so quick).

Note this is in Brisbane Australia, and I have a high quality antenna, with RG6 cable, line of sight to the broadcast towers, and no other issues.
Thanks

 

[Taipan]

Can someone look at the attached log, and see if there is anything obviously wrong with this configuration?

MediaPortal seems to have trouble getting a lock on the Dvico card - for example, 5 seconds are lost at this stage:-

2007-02-06 22:46:07.951416 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: wait for tunerlock
2007-02-06 22:46:12.045166 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph:TuneChannel done signal strength:0 signal quality:98 locked:True

and there are a few more "wait for tunerlock" delays like that.

I struggle to believe that the card could be this bad (especially considering their on BDA based app is so quick).

I don't think that Dvico's FusionHDTV application uses the BDA drivers at all - hence the reason it is quicker. If you are sure that you have top reception, then I would suggest that the BDA drivers are the culprit - have you got the latest ones installed?

 

[htpcoz]

Taipan, thanks for the look, I had looked at individual instances of these, but hadn't noticed there were multiple occurrences of these for some of the channel changes (which is why the individual 5 second occurrences add up to the big delays).

I've downloaded ScanChannelBDA to get some statistics on signal strength, and interestingly, the values are all over the place, the signal quality usually locks on to 100 pretty quickly, but signal strength reports values like 80000, and -6300.

So it looks to me like the dvico BDA driver is reporting garbage in the signal strength, which I guess is resulting in MP believing it doesn't have a tuner lock, and causing these delays (strangely the scanchannelsbda never seems to get a "real" value for strength, so I wonder how MP eventually gets a lock).

I've got the latest DVICO drivers (unless someone knows of more recent ones... but these are the most recent ones I could find on the site). I looked into older ones, but unfortunately only the most recent ones actually support the new Dual Digital 4 card. Not sure what the best path forward is here, I guess my read on it would be for anyone thinking about the Dual 4, (in aus anyhow) might be best to steer clear for the moment.

TVEngine 3 does actually seem to perform a bit better, but it is very limited in many respects for the moment, so I've had to move back to the old engine, and the slow channel changes.

 

[htpcoz]

I've done a bit more investigation with scanchannelsbda, and it appears that the values coming back from the card are consistent, but just very different from other drivers.

In my case I tried in the same PC another card (DNTV live). This reports 0 when no antenna is connected, and goes up to 90% with "bunny ears", and 100 with the external antenna.

When I do the same with the DVICO I get 80000 with no antenna connected (consistent). With "bunny ears" I get -5300 (approx, value varies +/- 500), when I connect the external antenna this values goes to about -6300. So it seems to me that perhaps the value quoted is a gain figure or some such value for the signal, rather than a percentage figure. My signal is strong, with no stutter or dropout (even with bunny ears).

So now I'm wondering if perhaps these non-standard values are the source of the problem. If so, I then wonder if it would be feasible to make the channel locking algorithm flexible enough to support different signal strength reporting mechanisms. Or perhaps just ignore signal strength and use signal quality (which strangely is in my driver a 0-100 percentage value).

Interestingly the scanchannelsBDA has an option to change the "locking" algorithm, to use either signal strength or signal quality to indicate a lock. Perhaps that is an indication that other BDA drivers also behave differently.

 

[Taipan]

When I do the same with the DVICO I get 80000 with no antenna connected (consistent). With "bunny ears" I get -5300 (approx, value varies +/- 500), when I connect the external antenna this values goes to about -6300. So it seems to me that perhaps the value quoted is a gain figure or some such value for the signal, rather than a percentage figure.

I have read in other forums that the Dvico BDA drivers are "non-standard" when it comes to signal strength readings, so you are probably onto something here.

It might be worth emailing Dvico support (in Korea) - I have found them to be very responsive and they may send you updated (beta) drivers. Also, it would be interesting to get their response to the reported signal strength issue?

 

[Aaron]

Nice work htpcoz. Let us know if you have any luck with the DVICO support guys. If not, perhaps some MP guys can adapt a patch to recognise DVICO signal strength numbers on the MP side?

 

[htpcoz]

I've done a rebuild of the latest SVN with some of the commented out debug put back in printing the tuner info...

Looks like the garbage signal strength is making it through and confusing things... we have a lock, but just bad signal. I'll look at seeing if there is a logical way that it can be modified to work around this in the code (obviously without breaking everything else).

2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: Recorder: StartTimeshift tv TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: Recorder: find free card
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: Commandtop all card except card:2
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: Recorder: found free card 3 prio:10 namevico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2)
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: Recorder: start timeshifting card Dvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2) channel:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: TVCapture.StartTimeShifting() Card:3 :TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: vmr9ispose
2007-02-08 13:02:25.937500 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphtartTimeShifting() TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:25.953125 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: tuning details: frequency:219500 kHz ONID:4116 TSID:1540 SID:1605 provider:unknown
2007-02-08 13:02:25.953125 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: channel TEN Digital uses AC3
2007-02-08 13:02:25.953125 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph). StartTimeShifting: ac3=True
2007-02-08 13:02:30.312500 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph:TuneChannel() tune to channel:98
2007-02-08 13:02:30.312500 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: tuning details: frequency:219500 kHz ONID:4116 TSID:1540 SID:1605 provider:unknown
2007-02-08 13:02:30.328125 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphBDAubmitTuneRequest() frequency:219500 kHz Bandwidth:7 ONID:4116 TSID:1540, SID:1605
2007-02-08 13:02:33.093750 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphetHardwarePidFiltering to:0,1,10,11,12,D3,D2,200,28A,28B,100,240,80,
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphBDA: signal strength:0 signal quality:100 signal present:True locked:True
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: DVBDemuxer:TEN Digital audio:28A video:200 teletext:240 pmt:100 subtitle:0 program:1605
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: wait for tunerlock
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph:TuneChannel done signal strength:0 signal quality:100 locked:True
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: teletext: grab teletext for cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2)
2007-02-08 13:02:33.109375 [Info.][6]: Recorder: tv channel changed:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:33.125000 [Info.][6]: teletext: clear teletext cache
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: Command:MediaPortal.TV.Recording.TimeShiftTvCommand time:7218.75 msec
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Card:Hauppauge PVR150MCE idle
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 1) idle
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2) timeshift tv channel:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:False present:False quality:0 strength:80000
2007-02-08 13:02:33.140625 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:False present:True quality:0 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:33.156250 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: Unlocked... wait for tunerlock
2007-02-08 13:02:34.609375 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:34.609375 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:34.609375 [Info.][6]: Tuner locked: True
2007-02-08 13:02:34.609375 [Info.][6]: Recorder: start viewing timeshift file of card Dvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2)
2007-02-08 13:02:34.625000 [Info.][MPMain]: Playlistplayer: Start file (d:\recordings\digital\card3\live.tv)
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][MPMain]: add cmd:MediaPortal.TV.Recording.StopRadioCommand #1
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][MPMain]: g_Player.Play(d:\recordings\digital\card3\live.tv)
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: Commandtop radio
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: Command:MediaPortal.TV.Recording.StopRadioCommand time:0 msec
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Card:Hauppauge PVR150MCE idle
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 1) idle
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: Recorder: Cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2) timeshift tv channel:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:34.640625 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:34.656250 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:34.656250 [Info.][6]: wait for pmt :-1
2007-02-08 13:02:34.656250 [Info.][MPMain]: Streambufferplayer play:d:\recordings\digital\card3\live.tv
2007-02-08 13:02:34.656250 [Info.][MPMain]: StreamBufferPlayerlay d:\recordings\digital\card3\live.tv
2007-02-08 13:02:34.671875 [Info.][MPMain]: StreamBufferPlayer9:grapbuilder=null
2007-02-08 13:02:34.671875 [Info.][MPMain]: StreamBufferPlayer9: GetInterfaces()
2007-02-08 13:02:34.671875 [Info.][MPMain]: StreamBufferPlayer9: Enabling DX9 exclusive mode
2007-02-08 13:02:34.671875 [Info.][MPMain]: Main: DX exclusive mode: True
2007-02-08 13:02:34.687500 [Info.][MPMain]: Main: Goto fullscreen: False
2007-02-08 13:02:34.687500 [Info.][MPMain]: fonts.SetDevice()
2007-02-08 13:02:34.687500 [Info.][MPMain]: vmr9:ctor()
2007-02-08 13:02:34.687500 [Info.][MPMain]: vmr9:ctor() done:True
2007-02-08 13:02:34.687500 [Info.][MPMain]: vmr9:addvmr9
2007-02-08 13:02:34.750000 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper: enabled YUV mixing - No DX Error
2007-02-08 13:02:34.750000 [Info.][MPMain]: VRM9Helper: Turning on nonsquare mixing - No DX Error
2007-02-08 13:02:34.750000 [Info.][MPMain]: VRM9Helper: Set filter mode - Gaussian Quad Filtering No DX Error
2007-02-08 13:02:34.750000 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9: now active
2007-02-08 13:02:34.750000 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper:Vmr9 Added
2007-02-08 13:02:34.828125 [Info.][MPMain]: added filter:NVIDIA Video Decoder to graph
2007-02-08 13:02:34.890625 [Info.][MPMain]: added filter:NVIDIA Audio Decoder to graph
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: add filterefault WaveOut Device to graph clock:True
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: DirectShowUtils: found renderer - Default WaveOut Device
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: DirectShowUtils: Passed removing audio renderer
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: DirectShowUtils: Passed finding Audio Renderer
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: added filterefault WaveOut Device to graph
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: setAsReferenceClock sync source No DX Error
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: got pins
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: got pin#0VR Out - 1
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: render ok
2007-02-08 13:02:34.906250 [Info.][MPMain]: got pin#1VR Out - 2
2007-02-08 13:02:34.968750 [Info.][MPMain]: planescene: PresentImage()
2007-02-08 13:02:34.968750 [Info.][MPMain]: PlaneScene: PresentImage() dispose surfaces
2007-02-08 13:02:35.062500 [Info.][MPMain]: render ok
2007-02-08 13:02:35.078125 [Info.][MPMain]: g_Player.OnStarted() d:\recordings\digital\card3\live.tv media:TV
2007-02-08 13:02:35.078125 [Debug][MPMain]: GUITVCropManager.g_Player_PlackBackStarted: media: TV tv:True ts:True
2007-02-08 13:02:35.078125 [Debug][MPMain]: GUITVCropManager.SendCropMessage: send message for cardvico FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 (Tuner 2)
2007-02-08 13:02:35.078125 [Info.][MPMain]: TvCaptureDevice.SendCropMessage(): 0, 0, 0, 0
2007-02-08 13:02:35.125000 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper: playing->repaint 50
2007-02-08 13:02:35.140625 [Info.][MPMain]: opening video database
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][MPMain]: video database opened
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][6]: wait for pmt :-1
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph:Got PMT version:3
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][MPMain]: PlaneScene: Crop: top:0, bottom:0, left:0, right:0
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper: repaint->playing 50
2007-02-08 13:02:35.156250 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: OnPMTIsChanged:C:\Program Files\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal\database\pmt\pmt_TEN Digital_4116_1540_1605_5.dat
2007-02-08 13:02:35.171875 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphendPMT() set demux: video pid:200 audio pid:28A AC3 pid:28B audio1 pid:28A audio2 pid:0 audio3 pid:0 subtitle pid:FFFFFFFF teletext pid:240 pcr pid:80
2007-02-08 13:02:35.171875 [Info.][6]: DVBDemuxer:TEN Digital audio:28A video:200 teletext:240 pmt:100 subtitle:0 program:1605
2007-02-08 13:02:35.171875 [Info.][6]: DVBGraphetHardwarePidFiltering to:0,1,10,11,12,D3,D2,200,28A,28B,100,240,80,
2007-02-08 13:02:35.187500 [Info.][6]: update dvbt channel:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:35.203125 [Info.][6]: DVBGraph: grab epg for TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:36.171875 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper: playing->repaint 0
2007-02-08 13:02:37.703125 [Info.][3]: planescene: PresentSurface() frame:0 enabled:True allowed:False 720x576
2007-02-08 13:02:37.703125 [Info.][MPMain]: VMR9Helper: repaint->playing 1
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: crop T, B : 0, 0
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: crop L, R : 0, 0
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: video WxH : 720x576
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: video AR : 16:9
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: screen WxH : 873x465
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: AR type : Normal
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: PixelRatio : 1
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: src : (0,0)-(720,576)
2007-02-08 13:02:37.750000 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: dst : (866,217)-(1693,682)
2007-02-08 13:02:38.062500 [Info.][MPMain]: window:MediaPortal.GUI.TV.GUITVHome deinit
2007-02-08 13:02:38.078125 [Info.][MPMain]: texturemanager:CleanupThumbs()
2007-02-08 13:02:38.078125 [Info.][MPMain]: window:MediaPortal.GUI.TV.GUIFullScreenTV init
2007-02-08 13:02:38.140625 [Info.][MPMain]: xml:C:\Program Files\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal\skin\BlueTwo\tvOSD.xml image id:350 width:0 height:0 gfx:-
2007-02-08 13:02:38.156250 [Info.][MPMain]: start fullscreen channel:TEN Digital
2007-02-08 13:02:38.156250 [Info.][MPMain]: init->OSD:Off
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: crop T, B : 0, 0
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: crop L, R : 0, 0
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: video WxH : 720x576
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: video AR : 16:9
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: screen WxH : 1910x1080
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: AR type : Normal
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: PixelRatio : 1
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: src : (0,0)-(720,576)
2007-02-08 13:02:38.218750 [Info.][3]: PlaneScene: dst : (10,3)-(1920,1077)
2007-02-08 13:02:40.203125 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:40.218750 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:45.218750 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:45.218750 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0
2007-02-08 13:02:50.234375 [Info.][6]: #0 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:-6380
2007-02-08 13:02:50.234375 [Info.][6]: #1 locked:True present:True quality:100 strength:0

 

[htpcoz]

Request sent to DVICO, baited breath engaged ;-)

 

[Taipan]

Request sent to DVICO, baited breath engaged ;-)

My experience with Dvico support has been favourable - so you should get a positive response soon ...

 

[htpcoz]

I got a response back from their TS, and the question has been passed on to an engineer.

That said, I hacked around with the code so that I "normalised" the values for the signal strength returned by the BDA interface (mapped +ive numbers to 0, and -ive numbers to a scale up to 100)., rebuilt MP and ran it..

Looking through the code, I couldn't actually see how that could possibly fix things, and I was pretty much right.. it didn't fix things, so there is something else a bit screwy with the interface, I think around the isLocked information from the BDA driver. I'm struggling to understand the logic in the bdagraph locking code, so I think I'll need a few beers to get into the swing of it...

That said, the TVE3 works exceptionally well from that perspective (change around 3-4 seconds, which isn't fantastic, but is certainly livable)., so I'm going to look at the logic in the matching BDAgraph code in the TVE3 and see what the differences are.