Expand TVSeries to a sister plugin? My Films? (5 Viewers)

[fforde]

Any updates

No updates, really sorry. I am still working on this but real life and paying work takes precedence.

I will definitely post updates here as work progresses though. I'll go ahead and say I'll try to get an alpha out by the end of March. I have missed deadlines I set for myself before though so don't be disapointed if things get pushed back again. I am doing what I can though.

jocke: As for why I feel like a new plugin is necessary, the built in MyVideos plugin I feel tries to do too much. It is an important part of MediaPortal but it is too generalized to be really good at managing movies or TV Shows. Jack of all trades master of none I guess.

As for MyFilms, I think that's a good plugin, but I don't agree with some of the design decisions, particularly the use of the ANT Movie Database tool. I also feel like a movies plugin should be designed to monitor a folder and dynamically update metadata and movie listings in the app. The movie management side of things should be as automated as possible and I don't feel like that's the approach that MyFilms strives for. If the user rips a new DVD or downloads a movie, I don't feel like they should have to go into the config panel of their movies plugin to manually import it. It should automatically show up, meta data complete.

When people talk about a My TVSeries converted Movies Plugin, I think they are just saying they want something with the same design philosophy. A plugin that takes the work out of managing their movie database.

 

[emphatic]

I recently went from WMC to MP w/ My Films & My Movies. It took me about 20 minutes to add my ~200 movies to the database. I can't really see how that could be "very much a hassle".

So is that coming from having no movie database at all, or previously having your movies in some sort of database that you could import into My Films?

Say you don't have anything but a couple of folders (perhaps even with subfolders) containing movie-files, can you get them imported into My Films in "about 20 minutes"? I'd like to see a guide for that if that's the case, that sounds really great. Because 20 minutes is about my tolerance time for setting up something like that.

Emph

 

[allanp81]

I recently went from WMC to MP w/ My Films & My Movies. It took me about 20 minutes to add my ~200 movies to the database. I can't really see how that could be "very much a hassle".

So is that coming from having no movie database at all, or previously having your movies in some sort of database that you could import into My Films?

Say you don't have anything but a couple of folders (perhaps even with subfolders) containing movie-files, can you get them imported into My Films in "about 20 minutes"? I'd like to see a guide for that if that's the case, that sounds really great. Because 20 minutes is about my tolerance time for setting up something like that.

Emph

Do that on 3 clients every time you add some new media though.

 

[jocke]

As for MyFilms, I think that's a good plugin, but I don't agree with some of the design decisions, particularly the use of the ANT Movie Database tool.

That's one of the point many seems to be missing; MyFilms and MyMovies are two completely different things. MyFilms is the plugin for MediaPortal, and MyMovies is a plugin for WMC. However, the latest version of MyFilms, offer support for the XML-export from MyMovies.
MyMovies uses it's own database, kinda like My TVSeries and thetvdb.com, and the complete database is user-driven, that is, if you find something that's missing, you're free to add it. The database contains huge amount of movies, both dvd and hddvd/bluray, and also has quite high-resolution covers.

Say you don't have anything but a couple of folders (perhaps even with subfolders) containing movie-files, can you get them imported into My Films in "about 20 minutes"? I'd like to see a guide for that if that's the case, that sounds really great. Because 20 minutes is about my tolerance time for setting up something like that.

MyMovies (not MyFilms) has support for importing of multiple movies/files from a folder/sub-folder(s), and also supports folder-monitoring (so adding of new movies is quite easy). Afaik, the folder-structure/filenames does need some "strict" naming to be able to auto-import all the files automatic - however, this is also needed by My TVSeries. Also keep in mind that the "adding of 200 movies" is a one-time thing, and after that it takes very little time adding new movies.

Do that on 3 clients every time you add some new media though.

The thing is, you manage your movies in MyMovies, export to XML, and that single file is everything you need from that part on, to import it into MyFilms/MP. Doing that on 3 clients, through a shared network-folder, takes you about a minute.

----

Now, all this being said, I'm not saying that a more simplified and more manageable plugin of MyFilms isn't needed. I'd love to have a My TVSeries-lookin' plugin for movies. It's just that I don't quite see how people could say that MyFilms/MyMovies is so much hassle.

 

[ryall]

Do that on 3 clients every time you add some new media though.

The thing is, you manage your movies in MyMovies, export to XML, and that single file is everything you need from that part on, to import it into MyFilms/MP. Doing that on 3 clients, through a shared network-folder, takes you about a minute.

And it doesn't even need to take that long. I have my xml file in a shared directory which can then be accessed by MyFilms over the network from multiple clients.

 

[fforde]

Do that on 3 clients every time you add some new media though.

The thing is, you manage your movies in MyMovies, export to XML, and that single file is everything you need from that part on, to import it into MyFilms/MP. Doing that on 3 clients, through a shared network-folder, takes you about a minute.

And it doesn't even need to take that long. I have my xml file in a shared directory which can then be accessed by MyFilms over the network from multiple clients.

I think you guys are missing the point. That's great that you have gotten the process streamlined, but it's still a kludge. It's like relying on iTunes to build the media library for Winamp. It just doesn't make sense. It might be the best solution available now, but that doesn't mean it's the best way to do things period.

 

[chambolle]

Do that on 3 clients every time you add some new media though.

The thing is, you manage your movies in MyMovies, export to XML, and that single file is everything you need from that part on, to import it into MyFilms/MP. Doing that on 3 clients, through a shared network-folder, takes you about a minute.

And it doesn't even need to take that long. I have my xml file in a shared directory which can then be accessed by MyFilms over the network from multiple clients.

I think you guys are missing the point. That's great that you have gotten the process streamlined, but it's still a kludge. It's like relying on iTunes to build the media library for Winamp. It just doesn't make sense. It might be the best solution available now, but that doesn't mean it's the best way to do things period.

Ok, what we need to have such a plugin?
- a database
- a database manager
- a pretty printer of this database (what you see on your screen). Here, it is media portal.

Saying that the database manager should be only automatic is a dream. Everybody would like to have that. However it is a little bit more complex. For series, we accept to have english resume, and there are two important aspects: there are not so many series in the world, we all mainly look at recent series.
For movies it is quite different, the number of movies is much larger. It is sometimes difficult to find some information with ANT movie catalog which has the capability to ask a several website gathering the informations, so an automatic process is certainly not for tomorrow.
In this case, the user MUST have the possibility to manage its database by himself. Otherwise it will be limited to your friends or family.

Don't forget that some people have a lot of movies and not only the latest Hollywood blockbusters. This changes a lot of thing (The scrolling of MyFilms is too slow for me for example).
In addition, we do not add movies every day (once again it is not like series). Note also that for series I need to change the directory and to change the name and then to restart the configuration of MySeries in order to include them so it also takes times.

Why I need to restart the configuration: because the automatic process is buggy for me (maybe because I use a network) and sometimes it losts everything. When you use something everyday, after a while you change the way you see it and robustness become more and more important and you prefer to spend 5 minutes every 3 days to make sure everything is ok.

 

[G.B. Wolf]

For series, we accept to have english resume

Hmm.., my whole TVSeries stuff is in German? Uhh? Bug?

Don't forget that some people have a lot of movies and not only the latest Hollywood blockbusters.

Comparing the average file size of a series episode and a movie I tend to the conclusion that you can count 2 episodes for 1 movie. So only looking on the number doesn't make sense.

there are not so many series in the world, we all mainly look at recent series.

1) Not so many series? You're kidding?
2) The 2nd part can be said about movies, too.

Note also that for series I need to change the directory and to change the name and then to restart the configuration of MySeries in order to include them so it also takes times. Why I need to restart the configuration:

Don't take a problem only you got as a conclusion to all the other users. I don't need to open the config panel. And even when you've got a little problem there... you can just "spend 5 minutes every 3 days to make sure everything is ok."

And finally you're missing on big point which is a match-winner for a whole bunch of people: Automatic fetching of file information from the movie files like TVSeries does. Can ANT do that?

I personally just want a simple, better and automatic handling of movies to replace the built-in-pain-in-the-ass myMovies. I don't want a complex management. Just put a file into a directory, fetch some nice cover and an overview (hopefully in my mothertongue) with some extended data (year, director would be enough for me), but myMovies is the worst piece of software I ever encountered. It's the opposite of user-friendly. (Nothing personal against the author of the stuff!)

Best Regards
Wolf

 

[chambolle]

For series, we accept to have english resume

Hmm.., my whole TVSeries stuff is in German? Uhh? Bug?

All the series are in german?

Note also that for series I need to change the directory and to change the name and then to restart the configuration of MySeries in order to include them so it also takes times. Why I need to restart the configuration:

Don't take a problem only you got as a conclusion to all the other users. I don't need to open the config panel. And even when you've got a little problem there... you can just "spend 5 minutes every 3 days to make sure everything is ok."

This is an example of use. I just want to show that we can live with some drawbacks or some bugs.

And finally you're missing on big point which is a match-winner for a whole bunch of people: Automatic fetching of file information from the movie files like TVSeries does. Can ANT do that?

You can almost do that with ANT currently. The only one problem is that you need to open ANT Movie Catalog.
You could do that, we can surely say.

I personally just want a simple, better and automatic handling of movies to replace the built-in-pain-in-the-ass myMovies. I don't want a complex management. Just put a file into a directory, fetch some nice cover and an overview (hopefully in my mothertongue) with some extended data (year, director would be enough for me), but myMovies is the worst piece of software I ever encountered. It's the opposite of user-friendly. (Nothing personal against the author of the stuff!)

Wolf

Ok, me too I would like to have tools for doing everything, but we are living in real life. In real life, it is also important when using a tool to be able to deal with some problems.

I can live with an automatic tools for series, because we are almost all looking at the same series.
This is not true for movies. And there is a difference between the latest 12 movies and the 24 episodes of the same series. ANT has tools for an automatic search of information, even with this search which is well done there are several problems, ainly on naming (title of the movie).
This is not because a tool do a thing in a way you don't like that it is a bullshit tool, as you say.

For instance, I have some problems with some series: how can I change the database, where is the editor ? Sorry there is none. So If I have a problem with an episode, I can't change it (or it will become 100x more complex than ANT). With series it is not really a problem if an episode has a wrong name or an english resume. The most important thing is its number. With movies this is completely different.

We can imagine to have any kind of process, but the most reasonnable way should be to have a tool with
- a database with a simple structure (come on guys we do not need the top notch organisation under 4th normal form or something like that)
- a database editor
- an automatic tool to fill in the database from some filename or something like that. Eventually, a website containing the information.

With such an organization everybody will be happy: me because I can deal with problems and I have the automatic tool also, you because you cannot see the database if you want to. I think that if a plugin is based on a completly different architecture then the tool will have some problem very quickly.

FYI: ANT is a very nice tool because ot deals in a intelligent way with the third point, because you can use different website to fill in the database. You can also automatically find the information for all the files of a directory. So I guess you have never really tried to use this tool, because you have a strong opinion about it, for sure.

MyMovies at the beginning was just an integration of ANT movie catalog into MediaPortal.

 

[G.B. Wolf]

All the series are in german?

What you mean? I've got german and english shows, but all textual content is in German.

You can almost do that with ANT currently. The only one problem is that you need to open ANT Movie Catalog.
You could do that, we can surely say.

Can myFilms show the file information or even some fancy eye-candy icons (16:9, DD5.1, HD, ...)?

because we are almost all looking at the same series.

Are we? I'm sure that I'm watching other series than you?

This is not true for movies.

We're looking different movies? Why aren't we looking the same movies?

And there is a difference between the latest 12 movies and the 24 episodes of the same series

I'd say the latest 24 episodes of approx. 12 different series. If you don't take in DVDs, you have on a regular base 1 (max. 2) episode per week for one show on TV... at least here in Germany.

how can I change the database, where is the editor? Sorry there is none.

Since it's one global database the editor is there (Online TV Database - An open directory of television shows for HTPC software) not here.

So If I have a problem with an episode, I can't change it (or it will become 100x more complex than ANT).

What for a problem? What would you like to change?

(come on guys we do not need the top notch organisation under 4th normal form or something like that)

4NF is crap... even in theory.

The most important thing is its number. With movies this is completely different.

Ok... it's easier to match an episode against a DB, but it's the same problem matching the name of the series. But most movies have an official name and spelling. If you use this as a base the problems will be less. You only need to handle some extra stuff people use to manage their files like adding the year or whatever. But the series plugin has some basic rules and a powerfull regex mechanism for that issue. I don't see a problem why you couldn't use a similar approach on the movies.

With such an organization everybody will be happy:

Yeah... I never said anything agains such an approach, but for me it would be:

* a database: that you need that is clear
* automatic information fetching
* fallback: editor

because you can use different website to fill in the database.

I'd prefer one good website operated for feeding HTPC software in stead of a bunch of less good ones for different purposes. The center strength of the series plugin is the database sites, its managers and users behind it. With movieXML there's a sister project based on the same code... I don't know how far they got, but I'd love to see that project grow in the same way TheTVDB did and does.

So I guess you have never really tried to use this tool, because you have a strong opinion about it, for sure.

You won't believe it, but I have tried it . But it's too much extra work I don't want to do. The movies I put into myMovies is only some stuff recorded from TV. The real good stuff is in my DVD collection which I managed with DVD Profiler and this shows up via XML-export and myFilms in MP. Therefore I played with ANT around a bit and came to the conclusion that I don't like it.

Best regards
Wolf