Extension Installer V2 (2 Viewers)

[kiwijunglist]

^ +1 "Peak inside"

 

[fforde]

@fforde - MovingPictures installer has always been good, but when I was a new user of MP it drove me crazy trying to figure out all the different ways to install various skins and plugins, and as Dukus said, not all plugins use an installer and many don't even provide basic instructions. So a common, consistent installation is a huge advantage imo, especially if it ensures a certain level of quality.

I agree that consistency is important, but I disagree that a lack of consistency is what made it difficult in the past. What was difficult was having to figure out you manually had to drop a DLL file in your Program Files folder. Manually copying over skin files. These are things the user should never have to do, and any installer will solve this issue.

One reason I like installing zip files is to 'peek' inside at what is there and where it installs. Can I do this with MPEI?

I agree, I like this ability too. This is why Moving Pictures releases both an installer and a ZIP for new releases. We get far fewer downloads from the ZIP but some people prefer it. It would be a nice feature if an installer could be used like a regular ZIP file as well.

Ultimately though, the only value I see in a custom MediaPortal based install package is if this allows for tight integration with MediaPortal itself. Creating an easy to use package for developers is noble, but there will always be better solutions like Wix or IzPack. Creating a stream lined experience for the user is fantastic, but if their work flow is still download + run an installer, then you haven't really changed much. The goal here should be to create an integrated experience where the user can browse download and install plugins right from the config screen with only a push of a button. This would be worth creating a custom install package for.

 

[Mashenden]

@fforde - MovingPictures installer has always been good, but when I was a new user of MP it drove me crazy trying to figure out all the different ways to install various skins and plugins, and as Dukus said, not all plugins use an installer and many don't even provide basic instructions. So a common, consistent installation is a huge advantage imo,

WELL SAID

Additionally, I think all threads for plugins need to follow a format where the first post ALWAYS includes:

* A summary of the plugin's functions (with a link to a webpage if applicable)
* The latest release information, including a link to the latest release files if not in MP Ext Inst.
* A Getting Started Guide to get first time users over the hump.
* An Installation Guide that defines more details
* All supporting documents referenced with links

Even as it pertains to MP Extension Installer, I have a version installed on my server that I like (although I wish all programs were compatible). Now I am trying to install the MP Extension Installer referenced here on a client PC but I cannot figure out if it is even the one I used on the other PC.

I agree that consistency is important, but I disagree that a lack of consistency is what made it difficult in the past. What was difficult was having to figure out you manually had to drop a DLL file in your Program Files folder. Manually copying over skin files. These are things the user should never have to do,

I agree that the manual aspect made it confusing, but if it was always that way it could be documented and we would get used to it. Consequently, I respectfully disagree with you in your position that a lack of consistency is not what made it difficult. It most certainly has made it difficult.

There is way too much confusion for a newbie, but a good installer will help that, no doubt. I first looked at MP in 2006 but bailed becasue of this issue. Now I am taking another shot - if I cannot get WebEPG working pretty soon I will probably have to again put this on hold until it is ready for prime time.

[UPDATE]

Even as it pertains to MP Extension Installer, I have a version installed on my server that I like (although I wish all programs were compatible). Now I am trying to install the MP Extension Installer referenced here on a client PC but I cannot figure out if it is even the one I used on the other PC.

OK, now I'm quoting myyself There is probably something fundamentally wrong with that but it is not without reason...

I have now figured out that MP Extension Installer 2 is not what I used on my server PC. I now understand that MP Extnesion Installer comes with MP (at least for V1.0.1).

Developers - Why not load the MP Extension Installer shortcut to the desktop along with MP and MP Config and MP-TV Server??? It is most likely used as much or more. Since it was not on the desktop, I went looking on the forum for how to install it (even though there was no need) then got confused between what I already had and MP Ext Install 2.

Sooo, full circile ...

dukus - MP Ext Install (1) seems to work well. What advantages does MP Ext Install 2 have over 1???


mashenden

 

[dukus]

I made some improvements :
- drag&drop support
- possibility to update all extension

I made a another package, this time for Xface skin, this is a test version only, not a official release or something like this. Pls test it if its work how should be ...

 

[Dadeo]

I agree that consistency is important, but I disagree that a lack of consistency is what made it difficult in the past. What was difficult was having to figure out you manually had to drop a DLL file in your Program Files folder. Manually copying over skin files. These are things the user should never have to do, and any installer will solve this issue.[

I agree, but: "Any installer will do? " What installler? I think you are assuming all skinners and plugin developers have your skills and dedication! If there is not a standard installer, then we are still stuck with the unzip to folders installation that neither of us like! The previous installer was not working well for skins or many plugins so the work Dukus is doing is critical imo. I hated providing aMPed as a zip file and asking users to copy files, but I did not have the skills to develop an installer until chefkoch kindly offered to do an NSIS installer for aMPed. But not all skins are lucky enough to have a user willing to do that for them.

For example if there was an interface to browse and install plugin-ins via the MediaPortal config that required an MPEI install package to work, hell yes we would go for that.

Huh? This already exists and has for some time. Perhaps that is why Dukus did not mention it. In MP Config - Plugins just click on the MPInstaller tab. However, you are correct that it does not show updates yet. Hopefully when Dukus is done, it will do so! There's another suggestion for you Dukus - fully integrate the extension installer into MP Config!

For updates you have to use the Extension Installer (Shortcut in Team MediaPortal Start Programs) I use it constantly to update all MPEI plugins. Or, in MP GUI you can use the Extensions plugin to view online or local extensions and update them from there.

It would be kinda nice to have most important and popular plugins like MovingPictures and TVSeries there as well!

I believe you can even 'wrap' your NSIS installer into MPEI?? Is that correct Dukus? If so, that could be a nice compromise that would work for you and users like me as well!

 

[Mashenden]

I made some improvements :
- drag&drop support
- possibility to update all extension

Cool, I think - I'll have to try it.

It would be kinda nice to have most important and popular plugins like MovingPictures and TVSeries there as well!

Amen to that.

It sounds to me that another reason that MP EI-2 is being developed is that MP EI-1 was not used by many. If it was the users not using it, I beleive it was because it was buried in the Media Portal Start menu instead of a shortcut placed on the desktop. For me MP EI 1 vs 2 is not as important as pushing all developments to be recognized by whatever installer platform is selected.

Regardless, the fact that people are talking about how to create an easier, consisient platform for users to install plug-ins and skins is encouraging. I think it is vital to taking MP more mainstream.


My $0.02.

Matt A

 

[SpudR]

How about adding a plugin to update all plugins from within MP?
Added to the settings section under any skin - select update all - install and reset MP?
Workable?

 

[fforde]

I agree, but: "Any installer will do? " What installler? I think you are assuming all skinners and plugin developers have your skills and dedication! If there is not a standard installer, then we are still stuck with the unzip to folders installation that neither of us like! The previous installer was not working well for skins or many plugins so the work Dukus is doing is critical imo. I hated providing aMPed as a zip file and asking users to copy files, but I did not have the skills to develop an installer until chefkoch kindly offered to do an NSIS installer for aMPed. But not all skins are lucky enough to have a user willing to do that for them.

I definitely agree a fairly strait forward solution is needed for skinners, although I thought MPI already covered this ground. I was not arguing against this concept above though, I was simply stating that from a users perspective most install applications are equally easy to execute.

For example if there was an interface to browse and install plugin-ins via the MediaPortal config that required an MPEI install package to work, hell yes we would go for that.

Huh? This already exists and has for some time. Perhaps that is why Dukus did not mention it. In MP Config - Plugins just click on the MPInstaller tab. However, you are correct that it does not show updates yet. Hopefully when Dukus is done, it will do so! There's another suggestion for you Dukus - fully integrate the extension installer into MP Config!

There is an MPInstaller tab hidden in the plugins page of the config screen. The whole page has a big white blank area with a single active button called "Install". When clicked it asks for an MPI file. This is NOT what I was talking about. I am talking about an interface that is prominent, noticeable, and actively solicits you to check out a few plugins in a catalog that is browsable in the dialog. Auto updates and maybe a section for new plugins would add a lot of value too. The MPInstaller interface in the current config is virtually useless as far as I am concerned.

And yes it is possible to wrap another installer type inside an MPI installer, which at Moving Pictures, we have considered. We frankly have not heard a reason that is compelling enough to make us want to spend the time on this though.

I am really not trying to be down on the whole idea of a custom installer application, I just think focus needs to be placed on areas that would make such a custom MP based installer relevant.

 

[dukus]

There is an MPInstaller tab hidden in the plugins page of the config screen. The whole page has a big white blank area with a single active button called "Install". When clicked it asks for an MPI file. This is NOT what I was talking about. I am talking about an interface that is prominent, noticeable, and actively solicits you to check out a few plugins in a catalog that is browsable in the dialog. Auto updates and maybe a section for new plugins would add a lot of value too. The MPInstaller interface in the current config is virtually useless as far as I am concerned.

This tab will be removed, thx to mp design isn't possible to unload a already loaded plugin, so to uninstall it isn't possible. To solve this problem it is needed a another program.

MP Ext Install (1) seems to work well. What advantages does MP Ext Install 2 have over 1???

Advantage of MPEI2:

• More customizable install wizard
• Dependency checking
• Update information is provided by the extension dev
• Possibility to provide another(s) extension in install package
• Auto update function
• More safe install process, all overwrited files are saved
• Rollback any installed extension to the a older version
• Confiure plugin and skind direct from the installer interface

I believe you can even 'wrap' your NSIS installer into MPEI?? Is that correct Dukus? If so, that could be a nice compromise that would work for you and users like me as well!

I don't think if this is a real solution , so i don't plan to include in MPEI2

I am really not trying to be down on the whole idea of a custom installer application, I just think focus needs to be placed on areas that would make such a custom MP based installer relevant

Ok, then wait some real idea or suggestions

 

[fforde]

There is an MPInstaller tab hidden in the plugins page of the config screen. The whole page has a big white blank area with a single active button called "Install". When clicked it asks for an MPI file. This is NOT what I was talking about. I am talking about an interface that is prominent, noticeable, and actively solicits you to check out a few plugins in a catalog that is browsable in the dialog. Auto updates and maybe a section for new plugins would add a lot of value too. The MPInstaller interface in the current config is virtually useless as far as I am concerned.

This tab will be removed, thx to mp design isn't possible to unload a already loaded plugin, so to uninstall it isn't possible. To solve this problem it is needed a another program.

I think that's a poor solution. For me, the whole point of a custom MP branded installer is tighter integration with MediaPortal itself. Cordoning off plug-in and skin management to a separate program completely defeats the purpose.

I am really not trying to be down on the whole idea of a custom installer application, I just think focus needs to be placed on areas that would make such a custom MP based installer relevant

Ok, then wait some real idea or suggestions

I thought I was offering ideas. As a plugin developer a MP branded installer app would be valuable to me if it provided tighter integration with MediaPortal itself. Browsing for new plugins in the GUI or config, auto updates, installing plug-ins without having to restart MediaPortal. I guess I am alone in this request though.