Grey blacks with internal player + EVR (1 Viewer)

[Owlsroost]

Probably, but without seeing the result it's hard to say.

There's a lot about this subject over at the AVSforum e.g. Conversion of Video Levels w/ ATI HDMI Dongle - AVS Forum and ATI Radeon HD 2X00 (2400,2600,2900) series owners thread - Page 180 - AVS Forum

Tony

 

[HomeY]

Probably, but without seeing the result it's hard to say.

There's a lot about this subject over at the AVSforum e.g. Conversion of Video Levels w/ ATI HDMI Dongle - AVS Forum and ATI Radeon HD 2X00 (2400,2600,2900) series owners thread - Page 180 - AVS Forum

Tony

Yeah, i've monitored those discussion also, but they are all talking about the older ATI Driver releases without the presence of the pixel format settings.
Since my old 2600XT had a DVI --> HDMI dongle, i'll see if there is a difference in PQ if i use the HDMI output on my HD4670 or use the dongle on a DVI output.

 

[HomeY]

No difference with Catalyst 9.6 and EVR playback within Media-Portal. Pixel format set to YBrCr 4:4:4 played the AVS HD 709 mp4 test files and with EVR black is showing at level 0 rather than 16. Switch to VMR9 and black is showing at level 16, the same as EVR does within MPC-HC.

I did some extended testing last 2 days, and i agree with the above.
While watching TV (SD) black = black and shows level 16.
While wachting 720p mkv (The Dark Knight) black shows also as level 16, but is grey.

Whatever pixelformat setting i choice in CCC (YCbCr 4:4:4 or Limited RGB 16-235) and match the input of my TV to those levels i still get the same results:

In MediaPortal blacks get level 16 (and show as grey), while outside MP (using MPC-HC) blacks get level 0 and show as black.

I've been reading back through this thread and some people mention that this issue isn't popping up with ATI 9.1 drivers, but i'm getting the same grey blacks with 9.1

Also tried setting desktop colors (in ATI CCC) to 31/73 (brightness/contrast) and outputting FULL RGB (TV matched to FULL RGB) but this also results in grey blacks on The Dark Knight (which i just renamed on my HDD to "The Grey Knight" )

I'm out of options (except for removing the ATI card and buying a NVidia if that solves the issue) unless someone can point me into the right direction.

** EDIT **

Last option just pops up: Since TV is showing correct and it's only HD content is messing things up i'll setup an external player (MPC-HC) to play the HD content on. Only problem then will be the control with the remote. I recently ran into a nice tutorial about how to setup those controls up for MPC-HC but i can't find it anywhere so if someone knows what i mean and have the link somewhere, that would be highly appreciated

 

[Dr Tone]

Have you tried running YCbCr 4:4:4 and adjusting the CCC setting appropriately to get the blacks back?

 

[HomeY]

Have you tried running YCbCr 4:4:4 and adjusting the CCC setting appropriately to get the blacks back?

I've tried RGB Full and set ATI Color to 31/73 (brightness/contrast) but that still gives grey blacks inside MediaPortal with EVR. If i switch to VMR9 it's all good (but that's no option in Vista) so i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way the EVR renderer works inside MP.

Don't really wanna hassle with all those CCC settings since i had my panel ISF Calibrated on Limited RGB output/Limited RGB TV Input (which should be the correct setting).

I assume you were refering to the above 31/73 setting inside CCC?

 

[damaster]

Have you tried running YCbCr 4:4:4 and adjusting the CCC setting appropriately to get the blacks back?

I've tried RGB Full and set ATI Color to 31/73 (brightness/contrast) but that still gives grey blacks inside MediaPortal with EVR. If i switch to VMR9 it's all good (but that's no option in Vista) so i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way the EVR renderer works inside MP.

Don't really wanna hassle with all those CCC settings since i had my panel ISF Calibrated on Limited RGB output/Limited RGB TV Input (which should be the correct setting).

I assume you were refering to the above 31/73 setting inside CCC?

It's unreasonable to conclude with a blanket statement that "there's something wrong with the EVR renderer in MP" since it works fine for a lot of us. Like I said before, I have no black level issues with an ATI Radeon HD 3470, Vista (no SP, but SP1 evr.dll), Catalyst 9.5, and MPC Video Decoder.

I really don't think MP's EVR renderer does anything to video levels, but I'll look at the code and let you know.

 

[HomeY]

Have you tried running YCbCr 4:4:4 and adjusting the CCC setting appropriately to get the blacks back?

I've tried RGB Full and set ATI Color to 31/73 (brightness/contrast) but that still gives grey blacks inside MediaPortal with EVR. If i switch to VMR9 it's all good (but that's no option in Vista) so i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way the EVR renderer works inside MP.

Don't really wanna hassle with all those CCC settings since i had my panel ISF Calibrated on Limited RGB output/Limited RGB TV Input (which should be the correct setting).

I assume you were refering to the above 31/73 setting inside CCC?

It's unreasonable to conclude with a blanket statement that "there's something wrong with the EVR renderer in MP" since it works fine for a lot of us. Like I said before, I have no black level issues with an ATI Radeon HD 3470, Vista (no SP, but SP1 evr.dll), Catalyst 9.5, and MPC Video Decoder.

I really don't think MP's EVR renderer does anything to video levels, but I'll look at the code and let you know.

I've got a feeling the EVR renderer uses different levels (16-235 instead of full levels 0-255 ??) which would explain why outside MP i messure black = 0 and inside MP i messure black = 16.

Well, it's defo not a blanket statement, but i've tested over and over with different renderers, codecs & external players.
Why you don't have an issue is very very strange to me. I just hope that you're 100% sure you don't have an issue, but the only thing i can do is messure blacklevels inside & outside MediaPortal.

But if you don't have the issue, could you please tell me what all your settings are and if you use any the register tweaks or any other settings, so i can try to setup my system the same and test it.

 

[damaster]

I've tried RGB Full and set ATI Color to 31/73 (brightness/contrast) but that still gives grey blacks inside MediaPortal with EVR. If i switch to VMR9 it's all good (but that's no option in Vista) so i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the way the EVR renderer works inside MP.

Don't really wanna hassle with all those CCC settings since i had my panel ISF Calibrated on Limited RGB output/Limited RGB TV Input (which should be the correct setting).

I assume you were refering to the above 31/73 setting inside CCC?

It's unreasonable to conclude with a blanket statement that "there's something wrong with the EVR renderer in MP" since it works fine for a lot of us. Like I said before, I have no black level issues with an ATI Radeon HD 3470, Vista (no SP, but SP1 evr.dll), Catalyst 9.5, and MPC Video Decoder.

I really don't think MP's EVR renderer does anything to video levels, but I'll look at the code and let you know.

I've got a feeling the EVR renderer uses different levels (16-235 instead of full levels 0-255 ??) which would explain why outside MP i messure black = 0 and inside MP i messure black = 16.

Well, it's defo not a blanket statement, but i've tested over and over with different renderers, codecs & external players.
Why you don't have an issue is very very strange to me. I just hope that you're 100% sure you don't have an issue, but the only thing i can do is messure blacklevels inside & outside MediaPortal.

But if you don't have the issue, could you please tell me what all your settings are and if you use any the register tweaks or any other settings, so i can try to setup my system the same and test it.

Ok, just to be sure I'll do the following test if you promise to do it as well:
- Get AVS HD 709 1.3 test patterns MP4 version and AVCHD or PATCHED version: AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration - AVS Forum
- We'll only be using the "Basic Settings" title, first chapter. It's the Black Clipping Pattern, a very low APL pattern for observing black-level on a digital display.
- For this test turn your TV's brightness up all the way because we are really just trying to determine what output levels we're getting out of the HTPC. You can set it back to the calibrated level once we're done.
- Run the MP4 version of the Black Clipping Pattern in MPC-HC, note the flashing bars you are able see.
- Run the AVCHD/PATCHED version of the Black Clipping Pattern in PowerDVD (mount or burn the ISO first), again note the flashing bars you are able see.
- Run the MP4 version of the Black Clipping Pattern in MediaPortal, again note the flashing bars you are able see.

Please post here the flashing bars you were able to see in each of the scenarios above. I'll do the same over the weekend.

 

[HomeY]

OK, i'll do that. ATI Output @ Limited RGB i assume (since that should be the correct setting)?

 

[damaster]

OK, i'll do that. ATI Output @ Limited RGB i assume (since that should be the correct setting)?

Yes, Pixel Format set to "RGB 4:4:4 Studio Limited" and AVIVO Video set to "Use Application Settings". Leave desktop Contrast/Brightness at their default values as well in CCC.

Try that first, and then if you want try other ATI CCC settings until you see the right flashing bars. You should try to see flashing bars 17-25 (again turn up the brightness if necessary on your TV). You won't see 0-16 at all most likely, and that's ok. If you don't see 17-25 at all, then there's a problem.