Stuttering During Fast Motion (1 Viewer)

[gperkinson]

Another update ....

..... found and activated VSYNC and Triple Buffering which I think helped with my tearing issue, but the picture doesn't appear to be as sharp anymore - tired activating each one individually with the other off, but didn't seem to make a difference, so back to square 1 unfortunately. Has anybody had the same issue and has a combination of the 3D settings which works?

I'm thinking about using different software - any recommendation or advice with my ATI HD3850 card?

Any help aor advice apreciated!!

 

[kiwijunglist]

hi sorry only just saw your private message regarding problem with video tearing.

video tearing looks like this

To remove video tearing you should set vsync = always on in CCC and you should use dynamic refresh rate changer in mediaportal config (assuming your TV can input 1920x1080 @ 24hz/50hz/60hz).

There should be no need to do triple buffering.

On the subject of CCC you should turn off all the picture enhancement options, and on your TV you should also turn off all the picture enhancement options/filters eg. motion plus etc...

Vista is a bad operating system to use, you would be better of with Win7 or XP, I would suggest Win7 32bit as your system is quite powerful. The Win7 MS DMO decoder works well for H264 HDTV in NZ.

 

[gperkinson]

Hi Kiwijunglist,

Really appreciate the reply - thanks!!

OK, I don't have tearing based on what you describe and have shown in the picture - sorry for misleading everyone - it is a "trailing image" that I'm referring to during fast motion.

I will certainly look at the settings that you have outlined around CCC.

In regard to Vista, I have SP2 which seemed to sort out a lot of issues, especially around sleep with Powerscheduler. I'm really not keen to folk out on another operating system if possible - would be interested to understand why Vista is so bad in relation to a MediaPortal, especially since it is later than XP and I have the latest service pack?

I really appreciate the reply and will let you know how I go with the CCC changes.

Cheers

Graham

 

[kiwijunglist]

I don't know what trailing images means...

Generally the problems can relate to

1. Video tearing
2. Dropped frames (press SHIFT+1 while watching a video)
3. Video + audio out of sync, often same cause as #2.
4. Sharpness / artifacts, usually caused by lack of 1:1 mapping and using video processing in CCC eg, sharpness etc..
5. Interlacing method
6. Video glitching (blocky coloured artifacts), usually caused by codec, driver or reception/interference issue

Vista is just bad in general. Which is why i recommend XP SP3 or Win7 32bit. I recommend 32bit for HTPC, as there isn't really any advantage in going 64bit as MP is a 32bit application. 32bit limits the amount of RAM, but MP on an HTPC doesn't require that much anyway, so it's really a moot point. Anyways OS discussion is probably outside the scope of this thread.

I think an important thing to check with regard to sharpness is that you have 1:1 pixel mapping. Google "tigerdave 1080p test pattern" and ensure you have 1:1 pixel mapping.
http://pixelmapping.wikispaces.com/Pixel+mapping+explained

or view this image on your home pc in your browser window
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Effects_of_overscan_on_fixed-pixel_displays.png
zoom into the picture at 100% zoom, then zoom out and notice how the left hand 1:1 pixel map pic changes when you zoom in + out.
view the same image on your HTPC at 100% zoom

 

[gperkinson]

Hi Kiwijunglist,

OK, I have done everything you have suggested and no difference unfortunately. I definately have 1:1 and turning on Motion Plus on the TV seems to help. Shift ! stats look OK - steady 50fps and very few dropped frames.

I still wonder about my TV reception - note I have a UHF / VHF combination box which is boosted and then split 4 ways - is there any testing I can do on my signal? Videos do seem to play OK (I still see some trailing) and recordings / live TV the worst issue.

My issue is around blurring behind fast moving images e.g. motor racing, stuttering on the screen i.e. picture stops and catches up and the occasional pixelation which is resolved by timeshifting.

I think testing the TV signal and then looking at codecs may be the way to go.

I'm also wondering whether my HD 3850 video card is powerful enough - I have to also transfer the sound to the TV via sound card and have lip synch issues, so I'm thinking about replacing that.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Regards

Graham

 

[kiwijunglist]

I assume you are using EVR renderer (needed for dxva under vista).
What codec are you using?
What channel(s) do you have problems with.
Please run a graphstudio graph on the channel that has problems to confirm what codecs you are using.

The motion blur you describe... do you mean interlacing artifacts??

I still wonder about my TV reception - note I have a UHF / VHF combination box which is boosted and then split 4 ways - is there any testing I can do on my signal? Videos do seem to play OK (I still see some trailing) and recordings / live TV the worst issue.

You can try direct connection without splitters and boosters and see if that solves the problem. You could also try with internal areial if you have one around.

My issue is around blurring behind fast moving images e.g. motor racing, stuttering on the screen i.e. picture stops and catches up and the occasional pixelation which is resolved by timeshifting.

Do you drop frames when this happens?

I'm also wondering whether my HD 3850 video card is powerful enough - I have to also transfer the sound to the TV via sound card and have lip synch issues, so I'm thinking about replacing that.

Videocard maybe borderline, i think it might work better in Win7 (32bit) or XP Pro SP3. I would recommend people buy HD4670 as minimun video card for HTPC if you want HDTV 1080i. (it was the sweet spot last year for low price/performace for HTPC now it is probably one of the 5XXX cards that I have no experience with), If you want to eliminate video card bottlebeck then use coreavc on software mode, your CPU should be fast enough for this.

 

[gperkinson]

I assume you are using EVR renderer (needed for dxva under vista).

Didn't know about this? Are you able to point me in the right direction about what EVR Renderar is and what dxva is? Also how I would implement these settings (I understand how to activate them in MP)

What codec are you using?

PowerDVD 9 as part of the Shark008 codec pack - I'm using AC3 filter for audio

What channel(s) do you have problems with.

All, but worse when the picture is cut down on the sides and cartoons .. and fast motion in HD. I have it set to 1080p in the CCC - is that correct??

Please run a graphstudio graph on the channel that has problems to confirm what codecs you are using.

Will do - don't have that running yet. I notice everyone talks about the SAF codecs which has graphstudio included - I'm wondering if that is worth looking at??

The motion blur you describe... do you mean interlacing artifacts??

Unsure what you mean by interlacing artifects, but if I have deinterlacing off the picture is terrible - it's a blur of the image that trails behind what is moving basically and sometimes the picture stops and catches up.

I still wonder about my TV reception - note I have a UHF / VHF combination box which is boosted and then split 4 ways - is there any testing I can do on my signal? Videos do seem to play OK (I still see some trailing) and recordings / live TV the worst issue.

You can try direct connection without splitters and boosters and see if that solves the problem. You could also try with internal areial if you have one around.

Got half way through that exercise and found that when I connected directly, no channels could be found - weird?? Can you think of why that is? I guess in that instance I should simply tune in an additional channel - correct? The thing is I have to feed the TV in the kitchen VHF and have 2 tuner cards in my PC - the other is analog and the final one goes to the TV which VHF (just missed out on the TV with built in Freeview)

My issue is around blurring behind fast moving images e.g. motor racing, stuttering on the screen i.e. picture stops and catches up and the occasional pixelation which is resolved by timeshifting.

Do you drop frames when this happens?.

Using Shift ! it usually comes up with say 20 dropped frames straight away and doesn't get any worse. This is making me thing it could be a reception issue?

I'm also wondering whether my HD 3850 video card is powerful enough - I have to also transfer the sound to the TV via sound card and have lip synch issues, so I'm thinking about replacing that.

Videocard maybe borderline, i think it might work better in Win7 (32bit) or XP Pro SP3. I would recommend people buy HD4670 as minimun video card for HTPC if you want HDTV 1080i. (it was the sweet spot last year for low price/performace for HTPC now it is probably one of the 5XXX cards that I have no experience with), If you want to eliminate video card bottlebeck then use coreavc on software mode, your CPU should be fast enough for this.

I have bought CoreAVC and it seemed to do the same, but this is some time ago - might be worth a look. When you say software mode, do you have a screenshot of this? I have it on de-interlacing Best on MP and then "Hardware" in the codec.

Many thanks for your help and pointers - I really appreciate it.

 

[kiwijunglist]

Deinterlacing artifacts are what is shown in the above 2 screenshots i posted. You only notice these when the picture moves rapidly, not when the picture is still.

DXVA = Hardware acceleration, ie using the GPU (video card) to process and deinterlace the video.

Non hardware acceleration or software decoding uses the CPU to process and delinterlace the video.

If you want hardware acceleration rendering method needs to be set to EVR if using VISTA/WIN7 otherwise set it to VMR9. Option is in mediaportal configuration. (might have to enable advanced mode). When you press SHIFT+1 it will tell you if you are using EVR or VMR9

The fact that you don't drop frames suggest that your GPU maybe fast enough, and is not the cause of your problems.

I don't use coreavc, but if you have it set to hardware than that suggests it's trying to use hardware/dxva rather than software cpu. So if you want to remove the GPU bottleneck from the equation you need to set it to not use the GPU and to use the CPU instead.

You should definitely turn off the picture enhancing / filters in your TV and under CCC as these are not needed for HDTV and processing the image more makes it look worse. This includes interpolation (ie the 100hz motion thingee your TV does). Also you should use dynamic refresh rate changer, or if your just watching NZ HDTV (PAL) make sure the refresh rate is set to 50hz and not 60hz.

If you install SAF (unlocked version) you have to manually uninstall all the codec mess you have installed on your PC first. Otherwise you can format your PC to remove all the codecs.

Which ATI driver version are you running?

 

[gperkinson]

Which ATI driver version are you running?

6.57.0.6607

I definately seem to have a better picture with the 100HZ Motion Plus on with deinterlacing on hardware and set to best in MP - I'm using PDVD9 Video Codec with AC3 filter (which allows me to set a 200 MS advance lip synch.

The screen shots you sent with deinterlacing issues are not to that extent i.e. with lines around the picture - it's more of a blurr behind the image.

What about heat - notice the machine is quite warm - I have about 5cm of clearence around the machine vents.

I didn't get around to plugging the aerial straight into the card to bypass the 4 way splitter or to use graph studio, however really weird that when I tried this previously I could not tune into and channels - can you explain that one??

Thanks again for your help - any more advice appreciated. It would be great to get you around to physically look at the issue!!

 

[kiwijunglist]

If it was me I would backup your system partition using a backup tool such as arcsoft hiren's bootcd to create a backup image.
I would then 'aquire' a copy of win7 32bit for testing purposes
Then I would format my HDD
Then install Win7 + Video Card Driver + TV Tuner driver
Then install MP 1.1 + SAF 5.0, nothing else installed.
Then tune the channels, then run MP and test (with aerial pluged directly into the htpc)