TV server - freeze (2 Viewers)

[mm1352000]

Ahh, okay.

No, if you're going to be using sleep/suspend/hibernate and have server software running then having a static IP is quite important. The server software binds itself to listen on the IP address that is assigned to your ethernet/wireless adapter. If your computer receives a new IP address when it wakes up then the server software (I'm thinking particularly of MySQL and TV Server) will get all confused because the IP address they were bound to no longer exists.

 

[Phaedra]

I've never been closer to giving up completely than today.

I have done a complete uninstall of everything around Medaportal, including ForTheRecord, databases, ....
Set a fixed IP address, downloaded newest version of Mediaportal, installed MS Sql Server 2005 Express (it also has better front-end management tool), installed Mediaportal again.
Channel scan : on the first diseqc port, everything seems to be OK, I get the usual channels. On the other two ports : nothing.
Shut down, went to bed, nodding my head, restarted this morning, I get channels on the third port too, but this time nothing on the second port.
When I try to view a channel that was detected (preview in TV server, no client installed yet), I get : NO SIGNAL.

It has been multiple weeks of spending whole evenings, and big parts of my weekends, just to try to get the core functionality (being : view live TV) robust and stable. Everytime I advance a tiny step, I get thrown back a mile.
I can say now that my confidence in this whole setup is far below zero, I dare not choose this installation for a live TV configuration.

Is it the DVB card, its driver, Mediaportal, or its settings, or the OS I'm using ? The database ? The rest of the hardware ?
Too many unknowns still, after all those weeks of experimenting, testing, troubleshooting.

In one month, my analog cable contract will be ending, which will be the moment to switch to another formula. I don't think this whole DVB-S thing is mature enough to put all my confidence in.
I'm sorry, but my frustration is going ballistic now. I've spent quite some money on hardware, just to be in a situation where nothing is really working, no matter what I try.

Edit : I just tried one more thing, to exclude som possibilities :
connected a second diseqc switch to the othe tuner on my card, with the same result.
This test excludes hardware problems outside of the tuner.

Just to prove something is terribly wrong here :
when I change the config to scan Astra 23,5 on diseqc 1AA (was : 1AB), i get channels. When I then config Astra 19,2 also on 1AA, I get channels too. How is this even possible ????
Apparently, the problem is in the diseqc switching signals ?
This could explain why I don't get any signal tuned : if MP sends the wrong diseqc commands, it tries to tune the wrong transponder/satellite.

 

[glenn 1990]

And if you temporary disable diseqc, only one sattelite on port AA.

You can also use for the record with the argus tuner instead of mp tv server, this works really great here.
But I don't know if argus has diseqc support for TBS cards.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again

I've never been closer to giving up completely than today.

I have done a complete uninstall of everything around Medaportal, including ForTheRecord, databases, ....

It has been multiple weeks of spending whole evenings, and big parts of my weekends, just to try to get the core functionality (being : view live TV) robust and stable. Everytime I advance a tiny step, I get thrown back a mile.
I can say now that my confidence in this whole setup is far below zero, I dare not choose this installation for a live TV configuration.

In one month, my analog cable contract will be ending, which will be the moment to switch to another formula. I don't think this whole DVB-S thing is mature enough to put all my confidence in.
I'm sorry, but my frustration is going ballistic now. I've spent quite some money on hardware, just to be in a situation where nothing is really working, no matter what I try.

I understand, believe me - I've had to go through similar things with my computer at times. Computers are great when they work, but they're the worst nightmare when they don't, and getting good support can be really hard.

Is it the DVB card, its driver, Mediaportal, or its settings, or the OS I'm using ? The database ? The rest of the hardware ?
Too many unknowns still, after all those weeks of experimenting, testing, troubleshooting.

I believe the issue is a combination of tuner + driver + DiSEqC (possibly plus other hardware). If everyone had the same troubles as you then nobody would use MediaPortal, so you have to understand that your situation is totally not normal. People always have some degree trouble when they first start off, but that is to be expected since the learning curve when putting together an HTPC for the first time is quite steep - there is a lot to know. These problems are very rarely problems that take weeks to resolve...

So what are the exact problems. My guess is:
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1. Tuner function after resume from sleep.
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You have clearly said several times that you have gone to use MediaPortal (wake the client/server), get the "no signal" problem, when you tried other applications they had the same problem, and after a reboot everything worked fine again. This is a *very* typical problem for many people. There can be a number of causes of MediaPortal not functioning properly after resuming from sleep, but when the tuner doesn't work in other applications then you know it is a hardware/driver problem. That isn't to say that you aren't experiencing MediaPortal problems too, but the first and biggest issue would be with hardware.
TBS have had problems with this in the past; they have had this problem *with your tuner*. You can read about on their forum in the link I posted in my last post, and in other threads. It is unfortunately a common problem for a lot of tuner manufacturers, and even hardware manufacturers in general. There is nothing that I or anybody in the MediaPortal team can do to fix these problems. Sometimes they can be worked around with things like delaying the start of TV Server, using a specific driver version, or using devcon to restart the driver. There is no workaround that is guaranteed to work except to prevent the server from going to sleep. If the server must be able to sleep then you need to work with the tuner manufacturer to get the problem fixed, find a workaround that works for you, or buy a different tuner (this is a real lottery!).
As far as MediaPortal/TV Server are concerned, the best thing you can do is:
1. Script devcon to restart the tuner driver after resume from sleep.
2. Start TV Server after devcon has restarted the tuner driver (ie. start TV Server from the script).
3. Use a static IP address.

Like Cody on the TBS forum said, the best thing for you to do to start troubleshooting this problem would be to try the tuner in another PC and see if you get the same behaviour.

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2. DiSEqC problem
-----------------------
If TV Server has a problem with DiSEqC then that is definitely something we can look at. I freely admit am not 100% confident in TV Servers DiSEqC function for your tuner. Some users have reported issues in the past, and it is unclear whether they have been solved as user feedback is contradictory.

Just to prove something is terribly wrong here :
when I change the config to scan Astra 23,5 on diseqc 1AA (was : 1AB), i get channels. When I then config Astra 19,2 also on 1AA, I get channels too. How is this even possible ????
Apparently, the problem is in the diseqc switching signals ?
This could explain why I don't get any signal tuned : if MP sends the wrong diseqc commands, it tries to tune the wrong transponder/satellite.

Are you certain that the channels from Astra 19,2 are being received when you did the second scan? I would say that some/all of the transponders on 19,2 are also present on 23,5, so you might get signal, but the wrong channels would be picked up (ie. some of the channels from 23,5 are being received again). You can do a simple test to check whether DiSEqC is working:
1. Use lyngsat (Astra 19,2 here, 23,5 here) to find a transponder on 19,2 that is not on 23,5 and vice versa.
2. Use each DiSEqC setting and the single transponder advanced scan to try to scan the two transponders.

If one of the transponders is picked up no matter what DiSEqC setting you use then the problem is:
- TV Server not sending the right commands OR
- tuner not sending commands OR
- switch not receiving commands

All of these are possible. Just 1 or 2 months ago one of the team members had a problem with their DiSEqC switch. It did not seem to respond to TV Server or any other software. It turns out that the switch was cheap. A replacement switch (I think he bought Triax) worked perfectly.

You can narrow down the problem by testing DiSEqC functionality in other applications. If switching sometimes fails or doesn't work at all then there is a good chance that the switch is the problem.

There is one thing that you need to be aware of: TV Server does not ask your tuner to resend the DiSEqC command when you change between channels on the same transponder. If you are testing TV Server then you *must* test with channels on different transponders.

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3. Freezing problem
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I think we agree that the cause of this problem was your use of the 1.5 TB green drive for timeshifting/recording. I accept that MediaPortal currently has high HDD IO requirements. You should continue to use Miroslav's patch at least until 1.2.0b is released. To be honest I'd also recommend using a 7200rpm drive for timeshifting/recording even with the patch, but that is your choice.

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My Recommendations
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I would fully understand if you want to give up at this point. It sounds like you have spent a lot of time and effort on this "project" and have only met with frustration. I have done my best to help, *and I'll continue to do so for as long as you want to keep trying to get things to work*. If you continue to try, then you will make it much easier on yourself if you:
1. Update OS and drivers
This is pretty self explanatory. Use the most up-to-date drivers for your video card, motherboard chipset, tuner... everything. Get drivers direct from the manufacturer if possible (for example, get the motherboard drivers from Intel/AMD rather than Asus, Gigabyte etc.). Also, make sure you use update.microsoft.com to get the latest updates for your operating system (especially SP1 if you're using Windows 7).
2. Try to solve one problem at a time.
I can't stress how important this is. Attempting to solve everything at once is just going to lead to more problems and headaches. If I were you I would start by trying to solve the DiSEqC problem (or the freezing problem if it still exists). Solving one problem at a time means being consistent with your testing, and disabling anything that could cause problems. If I were you, I would:
- disable sleep/standby/hibernate
- disable EPG grabbing
- install MediaPortal client on the server, and always use that for testing instead of TV Server preview
- don't use any plugins (including FTR)
3. Use logical and simple tests if possible, and perform the test several times
What do I mean? Well take the DiSEqC problem as an example. Let us assume that the switch works. Your experience up until now says that TV Server has problems controlling the switch. The obvious thing to try first is to see if it is really a TV Server problem or a driver/switch problem. You do that by attempting to use DiSEqC with another application like ProgDVB or DVBDream. If it works well and consistently in other applications then TV Server is likely to be the problem. Otherwise you may have a faulty switch or a driver problem...


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Like I said above, I am *truly sorry* for your frustration and I understand if you want to give up and try another option. I'll be here to help in any way I can no matter what you decide to do.

 

[Phaedra]

Thanks again for your support (and patience )
Meanwhile, I've retraced my steps, and found that I did change one setting : I switched the tuner from Generic to DVB.
As soon as I reset this to Generic, everything seems to be functioning normally again. Thank God for that.
When I use an MP client on the same PC as the server, everything seems OK now, including even WebEPG.
I did get an occasional freeze though, and had to restart the service to get everything going again.
Since I'm using version 1.1.3.0 now, I didn't apply the patch anymore. Default the timeshift buffer folder was set to my C drive, an Intel SSD. Changed it to the 7200 rpm drive as before, to be able to compare with previous experiments.

Story changes however when I try a client from a remote PC. It seems that this client can not get access to the database and times out trying to do that : opening the client and "loading plugins", and after a long timeout, when selecting TV->Guide.
The log states an error saying the db can not be reached.

As I said, I use MSSQL now, set the sa password to MediaPortal, and switched the MSSQL service to accepting local + remote connections, allowing both Windows + SQL authentication.
Maybe a firewall issue ?




Edit :
When I disable the Windows Firewall on the server, everything works.
I then added rules for the SQl server ports 1433 and 1434 and enabled the firewall again, but then it failed to connect again.
Disabling the firewall solves it again.
During MP installation, I made sure to check the option to add firewall rules for MP itself, so that can't be the one missing.
Anyone got any idea which rules I should add ?

 

[mm1352000]

Thanks again for your support (and patience )

No problem.

Meanwhile, I've retraced my steps, and found that I did change one setting : I switched the tuner from Generic to DVB. As soon as I reset this to Generic, everything seems to be functioning normally again. Thank God for that.

What setting is that - a DVBDream setting? That shouldn't affect TV Server...

When I use an MP client on the same PC as the server, everything seems OK now, including even WebEPG.
I did get an occasional freeze though, and had to restart the service to get everything going again.
Since I'm using version 1.1.3.0 now, I didn't apply the patch anymore. Default the timeshift buffer folder was set to my C drive, an Intel SSD. Changed it to the 7200 rpm drive as before, to be able to compare with previous experiments.

Good to hear. So the freeze is a full freeze? You can't use [escape] to get out of full screen and change to another channel?

Story changes however when I try a client from a remote PC. It seems that this client can not get access to the database and times out trying to do that : opening the client and "loading plugins", and after a long timeout, when selecting TV->Guide.
The log states an error saying the db can not be reached.

As I said, I use MSSQL now, set the sa password to MediaPortal, and switched the MSSQL service to accepting local + remote connections, allowing both Windows + SQL authentication.
Maybe a firewall issue ?

When I disable the Windows Firewall on the server, everything works.
I then added rules for the SQl server ports 1433 and 1434 and enabled the firewall again, but then it failed to connect again.
Disabling the firewall solves it again.
During MP installation, I made sure to check the option to add firewall rules for MP itself, so that can't be the one missing.
Anyone got any idea which rules I should add ?

Not too sure about this as I don't use SQL Server myself. What protocols did you specify for the rules, and are the rules inbound or outbound rules?

 

[Phaedra]

Thanks again for your support (and patience )

No problem.

Meanwhile, I've retraced my steps, and found that I did change one setting : I switched the tuner from Generic to DVB. As soon as I reset this to Generic, everything seems to be functioning normally again. Thank God for that.

What setting is that - a DVBDream setting? That shouldn't affect TV Server...

It's a Mediaportal setting.
When you select the DVB card -> Edit, the setting is called "Preferred network provider".

When I use an MP client on the same PC as the server, everything seems OK now, including even WebEPG.
I did get an occasional freeze though, and had to restart the service to get everything going again.
Since I'm using version 1.1.3.0 now, I didn't apply the patch anymore. Default the timeshift buffer folder was set to my C drive, an Intel SSD. Changed it to the 7200 rpm drive as before, to be able to compare with previous experiments.

Good to hear. So the freeze is a full freeze? You can't use [escape] to get out of full screen and change to another channel?

Yes, it was a full freeze.

Today, when I started up the client, I had trouble getting live TV to work again. First I had the "failed to start graph" problems.
I tried it on the server, there everything was OK.
Switching to the client again, I could then have live TV again, but I had to select a different channel first. I guess the tuning parameters were wrong upon startup of the client, and when I just selected TV to ON, it failed to tune.
Once tuned, all went well for about three minutes, then TV module closed suddenly. This happened a few times, after which I had to leave. When I came back and started the client again, all went well again. Unfortunately, the logs were overwritten by then, so I can't really see what happened there.


Firewall settings will have to wait now, don't have time to investigate now.

EDIT :
just as I wrote this, the client froze up completely again. I was watchin one channel, then selected another channel via the menu. After selecting the channel, everything froze completely.

 

[mm1352000]

Hi again Phaedra

It's a Mediaportal setting.
When you select the DVB card -> Edit, the setting is called "Preferred network provider".

Ah, okay. Well it is advised *never* to touch such a setting unless you know what it means. That setting is for tuners that have compatibility problems with the generic provider on Windows 7 for some reason. In your case, you should stick to the generic one. Setting to generic does not mean any worse performance - it just means that the network provider itself figures out what kind of network the tuner is capable of tuning to...

Yes, it was a full freeze.

Today, when I started up the client, I had trouble getting live TV to work again. First I had the "failed to start graph" problems.
I tried it on the server, there everything was OK.
Switching to the client again, I could then have live TV again, but I had to select a different channel first. I guess the tuning parameters were wrong upon startup of the client, and when I just selected TV to ON, it failed to tune.
Once tuned, all went well for about three minutes, then TV module closed suddenly. This happened a few times, after which I had to leave. When I came back and started the client again, all went well again. Unfortunately, the logs were overwritten by then, so I can't really see what happened there.

EDIT :
just as I wrote this, the client froze up completely again. I was watchin one channel, then selected another channel via the menu. After selecting the channel, everything froze completely.

Does this freezing happen when changing to or viewing particular channels, or is it all channels?
What codecs are you using for TV on the client?
Have you got the "prefer AC3" setting ticked (under TV->TV Client->Audio Settings tab in MediaPortal configuration)?

I have two thoughts about this:
1. You have a persistent error in the most recent logs that I have not seen in your logs before now. Once it starts, it happens over and over again. This is probably what "locks" the client up. The error is claiming that you have missing codecs. I think you have possibly set a codec that is no longer available as the preferred codec for one of the categories in the TV codecs configuration section. It may be the h.264 codec - I'd guess that not all of your channels are h.264, and that the channels that are MPEG 2 work fine.

2. Some of the channels that you are able to receive are not compatible with the codecs you have selected for TV. This happens occasionally, and the only solution is to use different codecs.

If the client is a Windows 7 machine then I would recommend you use the Microsoft codecs for the h.264 video, MPEG 2 video and MPEG audio. If it is not, then it would be good to know what options you have available in each of those categories. Either way, you should also use MONOGRAM for the AAC audio and the default directsound device as the audio renderer.

 

[Phaedra]

Hi,

regarding the codecs or other settings on the client : I have done a fresh install of the MP client version 1.1.3.0, changed nothing about codecs or audio settings. In version 1.1.2.0 I did the same, but I didn't get these errors.
On my TV server machine I have the same setup, but there it works fine. I do have other applications installed on that machine, like VLC player. This might mean that other codecs are present because of that ?
I will check these settings when I get home tonight, thanks for the info.

 

[Phaedra]

I applied the changes as you stated, and didn't get the freezing problem anymore.
Only thing was, when I first started the client, any channel I tried, I got the "no signal" error.
When I did a chennel preview on the server, everything worked normally. Switching back to the client, all went normally there too.
I will see in the coming days if this problem persists or not, and will try to capture the logs.

Regarding the codecs, the conclusion is that when you install a MP client on a clean Win7 installation, the defaults for the codecs aren't the right ones.