Excessive frame drops (1 Viewer)

mm1352000

Development Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • September 1, 2008
    21,571
    8,218
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Country flag
    I had originally intended using VideoRedo to extract the clip, and VideoRedo does have a "fix-up" button to fix-up irregularities in something or other. But the version of VideoRedo that I have does not support HD files. :( I did not know whether VideoLan would perform similar fix-ups when it extracted the clip, but evidently it does not as the clip still shows the problem.
    My understanding is that "quick stream fix" checks timing (for TS: PCR, PTS, DTS...???) and other meta information (for TS: PAT, PMT...???), but it doesn't touch the actual video or audio content (ie. encoding). In other words, I doubt "quick stream fix" would help, even if you did have the version of VR that supported h.264.

    Yes, I agree. But what? :confused:

    I cleared out the log folders and played the clip with "MP Watchdog" active. Logs files are attached below. The logs don't seem to contain any obvious errors (but then, I don't know what I am looking for). The clip is called "Remember Me (BBC1 HD) Judder When Panning".
    I don't see any dropped frames or other errors in the log files either.

    My guess is that the issue relates to the low frame rate (both MediaInfo and TsReader detect 1920x1080 25 fps progressive - which seems a little odd to me) and possible frame rate compensation/conversion (telecine, pull-down etc.) done by BBC and/or your TV and/or your GPU. Such issues will always be most obvious in panning scenes where the source and/or output frame rates are low.
     

    CyberSimian

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2013
    2,021
    1,253
    Southampton
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Country flag
    My guess is that the issue relates to the low frame rate (both MediaInfo and TsReader detect 1920x1080 25 fps progressive - which seems a little odd to me) and possible frame rate compensation/conversion (telecine, pull-down etc.) done by BBC and/or your TV and/or your GPU.
    I remembered from my 5-years use of WMC that users in the USA were/are plagued by a problem known as the "29/59 bug". I have just been browsing TheGreenButton site, and came across the following thread that deals with a similar problem with HD in the UK (presumably it would be called the "25/50 bug"):

    http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2496

    Sadly, that thread does not identify a solution. :cry: :cry: :cry:

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK
     

    mm1352000

    Development Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • September 1, 2008
    21,571
    8,218
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Country flag
    @Owlsroost
    To the best of your knowledge, does TsReader handle dynamic progressive <--> interlaced changes properly?

    @CyberSimian
    If that's the problem, it may be worth trying different video codecs.
    Also note that Owlsroost is currently on holiday so it may be a week or more before he replies... if he replies. May need to ask again after he gets back and has had a chance to settle.
     

    CyberSimian

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2013
    2,021
    1,253
    Southampton
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Country flag
    If that's the problem, it may be worth trying different video codecs.
    Thanks; I will add that to the list of things to try:

    (1) WMC users found that some driver versions were better than others, so I should try upgrading/downgrading my existing Nvidia drivers.

    (2) WMC users also found that certain graphics cards were better than others. Unfortunately, the list of known good cards referenced in the TGB thread is on a page that no longer exists. :( Nevertheless, I do have three other graphics cards that I can try.

    (3) Different video codecs (I will have to find out what alternatives are available and how to install them!).

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK
     

    CyberSimian

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2013
    2,021
    1,253
    Southampton
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Country flag
    I will add that to the list of things to try:
    Well, that was quick! :)

    I looked again at the settings for "H264 Video" on the "TV Codecs" tab. Yesterday I had tried the deinterlacing settings on the right-hand side of the panel ("Hardware/GPU Deinterlacing" with Nvidia CUVID, and separately "Software Deinterlacing (YADIF)"), but they did not make any difference.

    This morning I tried varying the "Deinterlacing Mode" setting in the upper left quarter of the panel. It had been set to "Auto" (presumably the default, as I had not previously changed it), so I tried each of the other settings in turn, one of which eliminated the jerky panning in my test clip :), specifically the "Force" setting.

    The "Force" setting is described as "All frames are handled as interlaced", so the question now is whether this setting will have a detrimental effect on non-interlaced TV programmes. I will try this setting for a few days, and see if I notice any visual artefacts.

    -- from CyberSimian in the UK

    PS: The hover help describing the "Force" setting actually says "All frames are handles as interlaced"; a slight typo there, I think. :D
     

    mm1352000

    Development Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • September 1, 2008
    21,571
    8,218
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Country flag
    and separately "Software Deinterlacing (YADIF)"
    Be careful with that. It requires a lot of CPU grunt.

    so I tried each of the other settings in turn, one of which eliminated the jerky panning in my test clip :), specifically the "Force" setting.
    Nice. :)
    The explanation fits the problem.

    so the question now is whether this setting will have a detrimental effect on non-interlaced TV programmes.
    I don't know, but it seems possible if not likely.

    PS: The hover help describing the "Force" setting actually says "All frames are handles as interlaced"; a slight typo there, I think.
    That's not in our control; something to report to the LAV developer (Nevcairiel).
     

    tclulow_4213

    Portal Member
    October 5, 2015
    10
    0
    63
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    I'm back from my enforced and untimely absence.
    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm only using SD at the moment. I may get HD tuner(s) at some point (but obviously only if SD works well).

    Changing to MS codecs made no difference:
    upload_2015-10-26_15-14-49.png


    I've tried a few things. I now have resolution at 1280x720@50.
    This works much better with ether MS or LAV codecs:

    upload_2015-10-26_15-21-45.png


    Is there a setting in MP that will enforce this when it's playing TV/recordings, but use1920x1080 when I'm looking at photos etc?

    Finally, I tried "force" de-interlace and YADIF, neither of which made any difference.
     

    Attachments

    Last edited:

    Vasilich

    Test Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • August 30, 2009
    3,393
    1,170
    Germany, Mayence
    Russian Federation Russian Federation
    Country flag
    Changing to MS codecs made no difference:
    you have set MS codecs for video, and should - for TV. Please mention also, that the advice to test MS codec goes for video only - MS audio decoder has limitations for decoding AC3 audio outside of WMP/WMC, so not recommended for usage.
     

    mm1352000

    Development Group
  • Team MediaPortal
  • September 1, 2008
    21,571
    8,218
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Country flag
    you have set MS codecs for video, and should - for TV.
    Note that this is some other MS codec rather than the regular DTV-DVD one. I assume that's because tclulow is using Vista rather than 7 or newer, and the DTV-DVD one is not available for Vista.

    @tclulow_4213
    Your comment about 1280x720 resolution working much better suggests that the earlier comment from Owlsroost about your GPU struggling may be on the money.

    Earlier you said:
    I'm not using the laptop's monitor, just HDMI to the panasonic.
    How exactly are you accomplishing that?
     

    kiwijunglist

    Super Moderator
  • Team MediaPortal
  • June 10, 2008
    6,746
    1,749
    New Zealand
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Country flag
    Is there a setting in MP that will use 720p when playing video, but use 1920x1080 when I'm looking at photos etc?.
    There is no such setting for this.

    Offtopic: There is a hack that might work. Basically use built in refresh rate changer with an external program (eg 12noon.exe) to use various refresh rates with a 720p resolution for videos, however have an additional default setting outside the video fps range for the desktop with a 1080p resolution. Enable force refresh rate change for all videos, and enable flick back to default "refresh rate" which would actually be a 1080p resolution.
     
    Last edited:

    Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

    OP Similar threads Forum Replies Date
    R [solved] MTS files freeze on last frame Watch / Listen Media 2
    Similar threads

    Top Bottom