Grey blacks with internal player + EVR (2 Viewers)

[HomeY]

I was having the exact same problem a few weeks ago with MP 1.0.2 - Vista x64 + EVR - ATI 4850 .....black crush on every Catalyst release after 9.1, tried everything possible but no dice.

So i have just adjusted to the fact that until (if ever) it's sorted i'll be sticking with 9.1 or i buy an Nvidia card -> not likely.

Of course you can use ffdshow to keep it in the proper colour space but i like to use DXVA when at all possible as i think this gives the best picture so that is still a compromise.

Looks like i'm kinda lucky that my CPU can do without DXVA (but off course i also want that to work) and use VMR9 till i can figure out where the problem comes from.

Not sure if you are experiencing the same problem as me, but outside mediaportal, everything is great (with ATI 9.5 drivers). When i play a video with PowerDVD, black = black. When i play a mkv with MPC-HC, black = black with both EVR, VMR9 or Haali renderer selected in the player. So EVR outside MP with MPC-HC player works perfect but with the internal player i get grey blacks.

Which reminds me of another option i have to check tomorrow: Use an external player for watching movies and then a fresh install to make sure i don't have any codec conflicts somewhere/somehow...

** EDIT **

Well, complete fresh install of MediaPortal today and still the damn "black = grey" problems with EVR enabled.

 

[1stdead]

Can't this be changed in the EVR render? A lot of users are waiting for a solution for this.

 

[damaster]

Can't this be changed in the EVR render? A lot of users are waiting for a solution for this.

Unless this is configurable, I would say no, since it would break blacks for people who don't have this issue.

 

[HomeY]

Can't this be changed in the EVR render? A lot of users are waiting for a solution for this.

Unless this is configurable, I would say no, since it would break blacks for people who don't have this issue.

Or just don't have any idea that they HAVE the issue. I'm sure lots of users have setup there panel incorrect according to blacklevels (contrast & brightness) and assume that the picture is good because of the deep blacks (but they don't see the lack of detail, which is normal if you don't use any calibration disc).

The latest SVN Builds of MPC-HC Video Decoder have the option open to change output to 0-255 or 16-235. No idea if i changes anything tho. I'm about to roll back to ATI 9.1 to check if the problem still excists, but so far i still think it has something to do with EVR since the problem only occurs within MediaPortal and not outside, but i'll report back over the 9.1 drivers.

 

[1stdead]

Can't this be changed in the EVR render? A lot of users are waiting for a solution for this.

Unless this is configurable, I would say no, since it would break blacks for people who don't have this issue.

Or just don't have any idea that they HAVE the issue. I'm sure lots of users have setup there panel incorrect according to blacklevels (contrast & brightness) and assume that the picture is good because of the deep blacks (but they don't see the lack of detail, which is normal if you don't use any calibration disc).

The latest SVN Builds of MPC-HC Video Decoder have the option open to change output to 0-255 or 16-235. No idea if i changes anything tho. I'm about to roll back to ATI 9.1 to check if the problem still excists, but so far i still think it has something to do with EVR since the problem only occurs within MediaPortal and not outside, but i'll report back over the 9.1 drivers.

Is possible by using a filter since way long time ago

 

[HomeY]

OK, just installed ATI 9.1 drivers. Black is black again within MP with EVR enabled, but only if i set output of ATI to FULL RGB (0-255) and input TV to Limited RGB (which feels wrong). With ATI output set to limited RGB and input also @ limited RGB i'm getting a nice whitecrush (Foggy screen with way to much brightness in it), so i'm still not sure if the levels are 100% correct...

Is possible by using a filter since way long time ago

You mean pixelformat settings within EVR are adjustable within MediaPortal?
If so, were can you set those output settings because they aren't in MP Config?

 

[djphatic]

Out of interested what TV is your PC connected upto and are you going via a receiver?

I have a Samsung Series 7 TV connected to an Onkyo 875 and then my PC. I find that when using drivers where pixel formatting is working I am able to select between Normal and Low HDMI Black Level on my TV when I choose Full RGB but with the other options this is disabled (probably because the TV has realised it is receiving a 16-235 signal).

I find that when Full RGB is selected and hdmi black level is set at normal then I get a duller picture (grey blacks, not just limited to EVR) but when selecting low hdmi black level blacks appear black again.

I have recently just built a new PC for my friend and it had an onboard nvidia 9400. When I selected 16-235 in the nvidia control panel and left it outputting RGB i found that blacks were grey but if I choose HDMI black level as low blacks would as black. If set the graphics card to output YBrCr 4:4:4 with 16-235 everything was fine with HDMI black level set at normal.

Its all very strange and difficult to get my head around...

 

[HomeY]

Out of interested what TV is your PC connected upto and are you going via a receiver?

I have a Samsung Series 7 TV connected to an Onkyo 875 and then my PC. I find that when using drivers where pixel formatting is working I am able to select between Normal and Low HDMI Black Level on my TV when I choose Full RGB but with the other options this is disabled (probably because the TV has realised it is receiving a 16-235 signal).

I find that when Full RGB is selected and hdmi black level is set at normal then I get a duller picture (grey blacks, not just limited to EVR) but when selecting low hdmi black level blacks appear black again.

I have recently just built a new PC for my friend and it had an onboard nvidia 9400. When I selected 16-235 in the nvidia control panel and left it outputting RGB i found that blacks were grey but if I choose HDMI black level as low blacks would as black. If set the graphics card to output YBrCr 4:4:4 with 16-235 everything was fine with HDMI black level set at normal.

Its all very strange and difficult to get my head around...

I've got my HTPC hooked up through HDMI to my Denon 2808 receiver, which is connect to my TV (Pioneer KRP-500M) throught HDMI.

The thing is: With 9.1 drivers i can get my blacks correct inside MP, but only if i output ATI on Full RGB and set the input of my TV to limited RGB (which gives me a feeling that i'm crushing levels, but i can see the BTB and WTW so should be fine?).

With the 9.5 drivers (which off course i prefer using) i get excellent black levels outside MediaPortal with ATI output @ Limited RGB (16-235) and TV input @ Limited RGB. Tried these settings with PowerDVD9 & MPC-HC player.
As soon as i use the PDVD9 or MPC Video Decoder inside Mediaportal AND i enable EVR, my blacks are grey again. With VMR9 enabled i DO get correct blacklevels within MP with everything set to Limited RGB, but VMR9 on Vista freezes up MediaPortal...

So i'm totally confused now on were the bug lies, ATI or EVR renderer (since it displays correct blacklevels outside MediaPortal with different codecs/players...

I'll look into this more tomorrow, but not sure if i'm ever gonna get my fingers behind this....

Would be great if more people with Vista + ATI 9.5 + EVR could test their blacklevels inside and outside mediaportal and report back if they see any difference because it doesn't seem to happen with Nvidia.

 

[djphatic]

So i'm totally confused now on were the bug lies, ATI or EVR renderer (since it displays correct blacklevels outside MediaPortal with different codecs/players...

I'll look into this more tomorrow, but not sure if i'm ever gonna get my fingers behind this....

Would be great if more people with Vista + ATI 9.5 + EVR could test their blacklevels inside and outside mediaportal and report back if they see any difference.

Personally I think its something ATI have messed up in there drivers.

When using EVR Custom Presenter and you specify the output range (0-255, 16-235) do find that it is the opposite way round when pixel formatting is set to 16-235 i.e. mpc-hc needs to be set to 0-255 to get correct levels even though the graphics card should be outputting 16-235.

 

[HomeY]

So i'm totally confused now on were the bug lies, ATI or EVR renderer (since it displays correct blacklevels outside MediaPortal with different codecs/players...

I'll look into this more tomorrow, but not sure if i'm ever gonna get my fingers behind this....

Would be great if more people with Vista + ATI 9.5 + EVR could test their blacklevels inside and outside mediaportal and report back if they see any difference.

Personally I think its something ATI have messed up in there drivers.

When using EVR Custom Presenter and you specify the output range (0-255, 16-235) do find that it is the opposite way round when pixel formatting is set to 16-235 i.e. mpc-hc needs to be set to 0-255 to get correct levels even though the graphics card should be outputting 16-235.

But if ATI messed up with their drivers, why do i get correct blacklevels outside mediaportal with both PowerDVD and MPC-HC when ATI output is set to limited RGB and TV input is also set to limited RGB?

And i just can't understand why MPC-HC needs to be set to 0-255. If we go back to the basics and look at the material (DVD, BluRay, etc.) all those sources are encodec in YCbCr 4:4:4 (which is kinda simular to limited RGB since it uses Video Levels instead of PC Levels). So outputting FULL RGB (0-255) would expand the video levels off the source and create grey blacks. Off course you want the video as untouched as possible to keep the best Picture Quality which would result in outputting Limited RGB from the videocard and inputting limited RGB to the TV.

Then again.... My TV is ISF Calibrated with the 9.5 drivers with output of ATI and input of TV set to limited RGB.

Well, prolly have to stay with 9.1 till new ATI drivers come out, since i have to use EVR with Vista and these drivers do seem to give the correct blacklevels now.

** EDIT **

Perfect explanation on how to correctly setup systems