SiliconDust HDHomeRun Flex 4K and ATSC 3.0 (7 Viewers)

[wiyosaya]

You are wasting a time. To support AC-4, the TsWriter/TsReader filters must be updated first. And it's pointless to work on it if there is no support in LAV AudioDecoder.

@Pablik thanks for your input.

I've added this comment to the issues thread for LAV Filters at GitHub. With any luck, everything works for AC4 and ffmpeg for LAV Filters to add support for AC4 soon.

 

[wiyosaya]

You are wasting a time. To support AC-4, the TsWriter/TsReader filters must be updated first. And it's pointless to work on it if there is no support in LAV AudioDecoder.

Hi @Pablik,
I bet you are beyond busy with your efforts in Media Portal development, and thank you for all your efforts. You have made some great contributions to the Media Portal project/software.

However, I note that the latest FFMpeg lists AC4 in the Demuxer's section. I also note that DTS-HD Master Audio is also listed in the Demuxers section. Neither of these is listed in the decoding section for FFMpeg.

I'm making a bit of an assumption with this, however, I think it is worth asking.

Since DTS-HD Master Audio is listed in the demuxers section for ffmpeg, and MediaPortal works with LAVFilters/ffmpeg to allow bitstreaming DTS-HD Master Audio to an HDMI output which can then be decoded by an AVR that supports DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, would it be possible to allow bitstreaming AC4 to an HDMI output so that AVRs that are capable of decoding AC4 would be able to do so?

My question revolves around the fact that the HD Home Run OTA TV tuners that support ATSC 3.0, as described in this thread, are not supported because of the lack of AC4 support and, therefore, no channels are recognized by MediaPortal when running a channel scan on such tuners. Is it possible, if AC4 were to be able to be bitstreamed to an HDMI output, that MediaPortal would be able to allow recognizing channels from such tuners?

The reason that I ask is that the ATSC 3.0 standard has AC4 as its audio codec, and presently, the fact that Media Portal will not recognize ATSC 3.0 TV channels from a ATSC 3.0 tuner because of the lack of an AC4 decoder is a big stumbling block for anyone who either has one of theses HD Home Run ATSC 3.0 capable tuners, or would like to get one (like me) because ATSC 3.0 stations currently on the air in my region.

If it is possible, would you like me to put in a feature request?

Thanks.

 

[Pablik]

Hi @Pablik,
I bet you are beyond busy with your efforts in Media Portal development, and thank you for all your efforts. You have made some great contributions to the Media Portal project/software.

However, I note that the latest FFMpeg lists AC4 in the Demuxer's section. I also note that DTS-HD Master Audio is also listed in the Demuxers section. Neither of these is listed in the decoding section for FFMpeg.

I'm making a bit of an assumption with this, however, I think it is worth asking.

Since DTS-HD Master Audio is listed in the demuxers section for ffmpeg, and MediaPortal works with LAVFilters/ffmpeg to allow bitstreaming DTS-HD Master Audio to an HDMI output which can then be decoded by an AVR that supports DTS-HD Master Audio decoding, would it be possible to allow bitstreaming AC4 to an HDMI output so that AVRs that are capable of decoding AC4 would be able to do so?

My question revolves around the fact that the HD Home Run OTA TV tuners that support ATSC 3.0, as described in this thread, are not supported because of the lack of AC4 support and, therefore, no channels are recognized by MediaPortal when running a channel scan on such tuners. Is it possible, if AC4 were to be able to be bitstreamed to an HDMI output, that MediaPortal would be able to allow recognizing channels from such tuners?

The reason that I ask is that the ATSC 3.0 standard has AC4 as its audio codec, and presently, the fact that Media Portal will not recognize ATSC 3.0 TV channels from a ATSC 3.0 tuner because of the lack of an AC4 decoder is a big stumbling block for anyone who either has one of theses HD Home Run ATSC 3.0 capable tuners, or would like to get one (like me) because ATSC 3.0 stations currently on the air in my region.

If it is possible, would you like me to put in a feature request?

Thanks.

I have done some preliminary work on AC4 support on both TsReader and TsWriter filter. TvService now accepts AC4 stream.
But I'm affraid you have to wait until full AC4 support from the LAV Audiodecoder.

 

[CyberSimian]

ATSC3 in the USA is still evolving, so it is not possible to say whether MP will ever be able to display ATSC3 TV channels, or record ATSC3 programmes. Lon Seidman posted this video on Youtube 8 days ago, which seems to give a good summary of the current situation.

If the US broadcasters do impose encryption on some or all of the ATSC3 channels, it seems probable that only "approved devices" or "approved applications" will be able to access those channels. And that is likely to exclude MP (because MP is open source, and so could not satisfy the DRM requirements).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[wiyosaya]

ATSC3 in the USA is still evolving, so it is not possible to say whether MP will ever be able to display ATSC3 TV channels, or record ATSC3 programmes. Lon Seidman posted this video on Youtube 8 days ago, which seems to give a good summary of the current situation.

If the US broadcasters do impose encryption on some or all of the ATSC3 channels, it seems probable that only "approved devices" or "approved applications" will be able to access those channels. And that is likely to exclude MP (because MP is open source, and so could not satisfy the DRM requirements).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

Yes, you are correct in that ATSC 3.0 is still evolving in the US. However, I tend to not give too much credit to predictions that of the sort that say all ATSC 3.0 stations will eventually be encrypted. There are many broadcasters out there that I doubt will ever adopt encryption for their broadcasts. In particular, Public Broadcasting in the US.

IMO, while there is a use case if broadcasters want to adopt a pay-per-view model, I think that what we see from what is currently happening in the streaming industry, namely, different content providers offering streaming services that have their exclusive content and most of these late streaming adopting content providers are struggling to make a profit, I doubt encrypted ATSC 3.0 would be a profitable model. We have too many content providers as it is. It seems also likely that if an encrypted model were to be implemented, the authorization end of it would be in the tuner/settop box rather than elsewhere, such as something like MP.

Another use case is that ATSC 3.0 could be used to provide internet since ATSC 3.0 is IP based, but that is not within the bounds of what MP supports.

Worst case, I think that there will be free services on the air broadcasting with the ATSC 3.0 model as well as encrypted services, however, all the ATSC 3.0 stations on the air in my area are not presently encrypted.

Obviously, it will be up to MP developers as to whether to support unencrypted ATSC 3.0, but I hope that the MP developers do decide to support it.

 

[wiyosaya]

ATSC3 in the USA is still evolving, so it is not possible to say whether MP will ever be able to display ATSC3 TV channels, or record ATSC3 programmes. Lon Seidman posted this video on Youtube 8 days ago, which seems to give a good summary of the current situation.

If the US broadcasters do impose encryption on some or all of the ATSC3 channels, it seems probable that only "approved devices" or "approved applications" will be able to access those channels. And that is likely to exclude MP (because MP is open source, and so could not satisfy the DRM requirements).

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

I know this is an old thread. However, I've still been looking at ATSC 3.0 tuners (since I'm about to upgrade my display to a TV that does not have an ATSC 3.0 tuner is it), and more and more are advertising encrypted channel support. Some, not all, have been tested by users and they find that they can receive and decode the encrypted channels with those tuners.

 

[CyberSimian]

I've still been looking at ATSC 3.0 tuners

This thread on Reddit from 3 months ago does not paint an optimistic picture.
Furthermore, Pablik has retired from the team.
So the likelihood of MP ever being able to view and record ATSC3 broadcasts is ... vanishingly small.
Sorry to disappoint.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

 

[Gcarr]

In the past, I have added ATSC 3.0 channels using the IP method. The only problem with that was, I couldn't get the audio due to their use of AC-4. I tried to work around that by using the audio from another another non-ATSC 3.0 tuner's audio but, the time between the two broadcasts ruled that out completely. (Edit: Deleted my last sentence because I totally forgot about the LAV problem.)

 

[wiyosaya]

This thread on Reddit from 3 months ago does not paint an optimistic picture.
Furthermore, Pablik has retired from the team.
So the likelihood of MP ever being able to view and record ATSC3 broadcasts is ... vanishingly small.
Sorry to disappoint.

-- from CyberSimian in the UK

Sorry to hear about Pablik. His contribution to the team will be hard to replace.

I do know that he said he did the initial work of adding AC4 decoding to MePo, so for another developer to pick that up might not be that difficult if a release of ffmpeg that supports AC4 appears. For myself, I imagine that I would be able to pick up his work (I develop software professionally and I have plenty of C, C++ and .Net experience), but at this time, I would not have the time to contribute as anywhere near as much as Pablik did.

And speaking of the Reddit thread, I don't think that Reddit is the be all and end-all. I often find better answers on many subjects elsewere. For instance: Here's a list of ATSC 3.0 tuners and other devices that are available. I have not tried any of these myself, but several of them list the ability to receive encrypted channels. I don't know what the audio output is from any of the tuners as I just found this list yesterday. But,

In the past, I have added ATSC 3.0 channels using the IP method. The only problem with that was, I couldn't get the audio due to their use of AC-4. I tried to work around that by using the audio from another another non-ATSC 3.0 tuner's audio but, the time between the two broadcasts ruled that out completely. (Edit: Deleted my last sentence because I totally forgot about the LAV problem.)

while searching yesterday, I also found this open-source Media Player that claims to be able to tune ATSC 3.0 channels and find and decode the AC4 audio stream. It looks like it is not easy to use, and whether it would be compatible with MePo as an external Media Player, I do not know.

Not only that, but the developer is offering to send sources for a version of FFMpeg that supports AC4 to interested parties. Perhaps he can be convinced to submit his ffmpeg code to ffmpeg for approval. What I don't know, however, is if Dolby would aggressively go after any open-source project that supports AC4.

On that note, one of the posts near the end of this ffmpeg Trak thread lists several contacts, in particular, the ATSC 3.0 committee, to contact in regards to persuading them to support an open-source codec for ATSC 3.0 or beyond.

Personally, I can envision a convincing argument for that as AC4, itself, is crippling the market especially for us HTPC enthusiasts.

Anyway, maybe this is an iota of hope.

This Chomsky quote may be relevant -

If you assume that there is no hope, you guarantee that there will be no hope. If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, that there are opportunities to change things, then there is a possibility that you can contribute to making a better world.