TechnoTrend scrambled channels error (1 Viewer)

[riksmith]

Hi,

I tried to instal version 1.0.4.4 on XP without succes. I had to manualy change the inf file to allow the installation.

With this new version, MP gives me "No graph" error every time.

Go back to 1.0.4.2...

Hi JeanChristophe,

thanks for trying. I think not being able to build graph is due to this driver having the new pbda architecture.
Without a decent SDK or other sort of documentation from TT I guess there is not much we can do.
I have the feeling that fixing our problem in the 'old' BDA architecture is not that high on the priority list for TT.

Let's see how far we can come on the dvbshop forum and out contact with TT support.

regards,
Ruud.

As info: PBDA will not be implemented in MP for a long time (If it will / can ever be). Of course we will try do get it in

 

[Ruud]

As info: PBDA will not be implemented in MP for a long time (If it will / can ever be). Of course we will try do get it in

Hi Riksmith, can you elaborate a little on the reason for this? Isn't that a consequence of choosing MS as OS of choice?
thanks,
Ruud.

 

[riksmith]

As info: PBDA will not be implemented in MP for a long time (If it will / can ever be). Of course we will try do get it in

Hi Riksmith, can you elaborate a little on the reason for this? Isn't that a consequence of choosing MS as OS of choice?
thanks,
Ruud.

No, pbda is MS only so that is not the problem. The reason is it is very complex. And there are also some security features of which i do not know if they can be implemented. And if not if they are required.

 

[Ruud]

thread will be deleted if no logs provided.

Simone

Hi Simone,

please find attached the logs created with MediaPortal Debug shortcut.

Synopsys:
1. start at appr. 7:33
2. Tune to RTL 5 (which is a scrambled channel) -> displays OK
3. Tune to NET 5 (which is a scrambled channel) -> Error -> channel scrambled message
4. retry NET 5 -> same result as 3.
5. record 'Burgers Zoo & Waarom' on Net 5 (the channel that previously gave the error)
6. recording icon start, stops, start, etc. but finally it is recording okay.

I have a follow up question:
If is on forehand known that a channel is a subscription channel that you have a valid subscription for -> it would make sense if MP would retry this channel for X times (just like in recording this channel) until descrambling works instead of throwing the 'channel scrambled' message on first try.
You could even make this configurable (x times retry before throwing error).

regards,
Ruud.

 

[riksmith]

I have a follow up question:
If is on forehand known that a channel is a subscription channel that you have a valid subscription for -> it would make sense if MP would retry this channel for X times (just like in recording this channel) until descrambling works instead of throwing the 'channel scrambled' message on first try.
You could even make this configurable (x times retry before throwing error).

regards,
Ruud.

1. Is a channel a subscription channel known?
yes and no. You can configure this, but a broadcaster can switch between encrypted / fta.

2. Is it known that you have a valid subscription?
No.

About the config: I think that would only be because of the technotrend currently misbehaving. In my opinion it does not make sense to include such workarounds in the main code. I would rather have a specific piece of code for the TT cards which could apply a workaround.

But for now i am still waiting for the TT devs to shed some light on it. In my opinion they are the ones that need to act now, not MP.

 

[Ruud]

Is a channel a subscription channel known?
yes and no. You can configure this, but a broadcaster can switch between encrypted / fta.

2. Is it known that you have a valid subscription?
No.

About the config: I think that would only be because of the technotrend currently misbehaving. In my opinion it does not make sense to include such workarounds in the main code. I would rather have a specific piece of code for the TT cards which could apply a workaround.

But for now i am still waiting for the TT devs to shed some light on it. In my opinion they are the ones that need to act now, not MP.

Hi Riksmith,

thank for the follow up. As I can recall there is an option in TV server with which you can run passed all channels and it would test if you have a valid subscription (test button?), so with this routine you can make it known that there is a valid subscription.

I agree that this error is a driver issue and that the best fix should be there, don't get me wrong: I love standardizing as a means of lowering bugs and maintenance so every work around should be weighted carefully.
I just feel that TT (and also other close sourced suppliers) will focus on win7 and actually will 'kill' supporting any other version: 'if you have a problem, first upgrade to win7 and latest driver and tell us if it is still in there....'

Just a thought.... I am currently looking at tvheadend as a possible opensource replacement for the mp tvserver: Linux as OS, opensource drivers (v4l-dvb) and opensource software.
I hear great things regarding tvheadend: fast channel switching for one (I know that we are strugling with that as well). Can software like TVheadend function as a jump start for the rework needed on tvserver (probably due for release MP2)? Not needing to reinvent the wheel?

Is that something the MP development team is looking at?
Just curious...

Will keep the pressure on TT without loosing (if any) credit I have with them

regards,
Ruud.

 

[Ruud]

Update 09-08-2010

Latest update from TT (09-08-2010 part 2):

Hello Ruud,

I haven't talk about PBDA! We will have a new BDA driver and a new API!

and my reaction:

Hello Peter,

due to lack of information people do tend take make their 'own truth' with the little information that is available (reading between the lines etc.)
That's why I ask: thanks for clearing this up, this is good news for us!

looking forward to (facilitate in) wrking together on this!

regard,
Ruud.

Latest update from TT (09-08-2010):

Hello Ruud,

after we have fixed everthing, we will have a new API, but I don`t know any date by now.

Best regards

and my reply

Hello Peter,

thanks again for your answer.
As I understand, current development is taking place on the driver using PBDA architecture as this is being used in Win7 MCE. Please understand that MCE is currently the only application using PBDA because it is MS driven (as far as I can tell).
MediaPortal is build upon the 'normal' BDA driver. Hence the newly released version of your API for Windows 7 MCE does not work on other applications (read MP) than MCE.

Will de API you are referencing below be an updated BDA driver?

Thanks for looking into this, because this is important information for determining next steps (if any )

regards,
Ruud.

 

[vladlenf]

I contacted Peter Kraus from TT and asked about the error and when we can expect it has been fixed.

The old driver will have never been fixed because TT wants to have the only driver on the market. But at the same time Peter confirmed that a new driver/API will support old BDA architecture. Unfortunately a release date is unknown.

Let's wait for the new API.

In my opinion it does not make sense to include such workarounds in the main code. I would rather have a specific piece of code for the TT cards which could apply a workaround.

Hi riksmith,

I agree that better not to include such workaround into the main code. But simple workaround with restetting CI can be included into specific Technotrend class. The only point is that channel switching time will increase. But still an option can be added to the configuration dialog to turn the workaround on/off.

What do you think?

Vladlen

 

[riksmith]

I contacted Peter Kraus from TT and asked about the error and when we can expect it has been fixed.

The old driver will have never been fixed because TT wants to have the only driver on the market. But at the same time Peter confirmed that a new driver/API will support old BDA architecture. Unfortunately a release date is unknown.

Let's wait for the new API.

In my opinion it does not make sense to include such workarounds in the main code. I would rather have a specific piece of code for the TT cards which could apply a workaround.

Hi riksmith,

I agree that better not to include such workaround into the main code. But simple workaround with restetting CI can be included into specific Technotrend class. The only point is that channel switching time will increase. But still an option can be added to the configuration dialog to turn the workaround on/off.

What do you think?

Vladlen

Sounds good. I will see if i can provide you guys with a binary. I can however not promise anything of getting it in an official release.

 

[riksmith]

Here it is. There is no option to turn on / off. I ofcourse cannot test so no clue if it works.