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mm1352000

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    Sorry for jumping in on this thread in English, but could somebody explain what the problem is that you're trying to solve?
    In other words:
    1. What is wrong with the linkage scanner?
    2. Is the private TsWriter that I gave to The_Stig useful, and if so why?

    I ask this because nothing will change in any future version of TsWriter unless somebody tells me about the problems with the current version. ;)
     

    este22

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    hi,
    yes, the tswriter is useful because it can find channels that are not allways on air (Feeds)
     

    The_Stig

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    Hey mm, same story as in our old threads where you coded that special TSWriter.

    1. What is wrong with the linkage scanner?
    Its simply not picking up off-air channels. Its finds only channels currently broadcasting.

    EDIT: To be honest I don't really know if the linkage scanner is doing its job or not. I always didnt like the idea of having a portal from which you can choose the subchannels. I wanted to have a clean channel list. And therefor I need a channel scanning procedure which finds off-air channels.

    2. Is the private TsWriter that I gave to The_Stig useful, and if so why?
    Absolutely usefull since its finds off-air channels too. I still use this TSWriter when doing a reinstall. After the scan I copy back the current, newer TSWriter.

    I ask this because nothing will change in any future version of TsWriter unless somebody tells me about the problems with the current version.
    I told you often enough in these threads - even reminded regularly about that case ;) But you said there are other things on your todo-list with higher priority - what I completely understood since this is not a usercase for too many users (seems to be only Germany and there only the ones with a sky subscription.
     
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    mm1352000

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    EDIT: To be honest I don't really know if the linkage scanner is doing its job or not. I always didnt like the idea of having a portal from which you can choose the subchannels. I wanted to have a clean channel list. And therefor I need a channel scanning procedure which finds off-air channels.
    The thing I'm trying to understand is...
    If the linkage scanner doesn't work for these channels then what is its purpose?
    How does the Sky box itself work?
    When the modified TsWriter finds these channels that you're looking for, do they have proper names?
    Are the channels that you're looking for actually temporary feeds which are designed to be selected from a "master" channel, or are they really channels that only operate at the weekend (or something like that)?
    What do you mean by "clean channel list"?

    2. Is the private TsWriter that I gave to The_Stig useful, and if so why?
    Absolutely usefull since its finds off-air channels too. I still use this TSWriter when doing a reinstall. After the scan I copy back the current, newer TSWriter.
    Okay.



    I ask this because nothing will change in any future version of TsWriter unless somebody tells me about the problems with the current version.
    I told you often enough in these threads - even reminded regularly about that case ;) But you said there are other things on your todo-list with higher priority - what I completely understood since this is not a usercase for too many users (seems to be only Germany and there only the ones with a sky subscription.
    As mentioned above, what I'm trying to understand is whether simply finding of off-air channels is actually the best solution for the problem. If these channels that you're looking for are coming up as "Unknown ...", or one week they are "Sky Bundesliga X" and next week they are "Sky something else", or you have to rescan each weekend... then to me it seem like simply finding off-air channels is not the best possible solution. This is something that I never understood from our previous conversations...
     

    The_Stig

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    Thats gonna be a lenghty reply. Trying my best to explain the situation :)

    If the linkage scanner doesn't work for these channels then what is its purpose?
    It works as far as I know for the following situation: you have one main channel (e.g. "Sky Portal") from where you can start every time you like to watch sports. Depending on how many current matches are played, the linkage scanner finds the currently on-air channels when going into ContextMenu.

    So the linkage scanner is not really scanning related in regard to SetupTV and its scanning there.


    How does the Sky box itself work?
    Don't really know, as I've never used it. One way for sure is the way the linkage scanner works (as described above)

    When the modified TsWriter finds these channels that you're looking for, do they have proper names?
    Yes, only glitch I have seen so far is that they get renamed first time when channel name changes ("Sky Bundesliga 3" changes to the matches name "Dortmund vs. München"). But it doesn't rename itself back. What I've done here is do a manual rename of these channels. After that they don't get changed automatically. For me it looks like a bug that the automatic renaming is only allowed once per channel.

    Are the channels that you're looking for actually temporary feeds which are designed to be selected from a "master" channel, or are they really channels that only operate at the weekend (or something like that)?
    They are real channels that operates at certain times (mostly when soccer-matches are being played.

    What do you mean by "clean channel list"?
    I mean for me personally I like it more to have a Sports-Group with all potentially available channels in them ("Sky Bundesliga 1" to "Sky Bundesliga 13"). I don't like that portal stuff. Its way more complicated: 1. Open Portal channel; 2. Open Context Menu; 3. Choose desired channel.

    And another point is: if I want to schedule a programme on a channel thats currently off-air...how do I do it? Not possible. If you have these channels in your TVGuide, you can schedule it (at least if EPG-Data is good enough)

    simply finding of off-air channels is actually the best solution for the problem.
    For me, yes. Maybe make it an optional check in TV-scanning?

    channels that you're looking for are coming up as "Unknown ...",
    I guess this is mainly due to some changes in Sky-Germany programs lately. Haven't seen myself many unknown channels.

    you have to rescan each weekend
    I only have to rescan when I do a fresh install of MP. Else these programs stay. The renaming of these channels is only temporarily (depending what match is being broadcasted.

    then to me it seem like simply finding off-air channels is not the best possible solution
    It may be not the best possible solution. Cannot tell about this really. But its working a 100% perfect for my usercase. I would no want it any other way.
    But I totally understand if other users like the portal way more. Then it would be the job of linkage scanner to work good. But as said: I myself didn't use it for ages, so I cannot tell if it works good or not.

    Closing words: great to have you back on that issue,mm. And count on me to test anything you like to have tested.
     

    pee

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    Sorry for jumping in on this thread in English, but could somebody explain what the problem is that you're trying to solve?

    In other words:

    1. What is wrong with the linkage scanner?


    2. Is the private TsWriter that I gave to The_Stig useful, and if so why?



    I ask this because nothing will change in any future version of TsWriter unless somebody tells me about the problems with the current version. ;)
    I think some of the previous posts are somehow confusing since the linkage scanner has nothing to do with finding channels but it simply maps the portal channels to its subchannels (which allready must be in the channel list!).
    This is where the original TsWriter has problems finding Feed Channels not currently on-air. Your patched TsWriter finds those channels correctly (and yes all of them, even if multiple feeds share one transponder, they still have different SID's) but of course without pmt since pmt is not set if channel is off-air wich not seems to be a problam at all, since the tswriter will set it automatically if the channel is on air.
    However your patched TsWriter works for scanning channels but not with live tv, at least with MP 1.4. Thats why I tried to implement your changes into the git version of TsWriter wich resulted in a working TsWriter wich finds off-air feeds and works for live tv but also finds unkown channels and whilst channel display name is set correctly it seems tuning parameters name is always unkown. I tested the newer slimtv native tvserver where everything works correctly, it finds all channels and no unknown names but the tswriter from slimtv is not compatible with the old tvserver.

    The Problem with Linkage scanner is the way it handles the channel display name because if a channel got renamed it keeps it's name until a new name is set, even if the channel is not linked anymore. This is why I created this little patch for the ChannelLinkageGrabber which renames back channels before they getting deleted from the ChannelLinkageMap. It also renames the Channels a bit different, like "event name (Channel Name)" instead of just "event name".
     

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    mm1352000

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    Thanks The_Stig, pee - now I start to understand... :)

    When the modified TsWriter finds these channels that you're looking for, do they have proper names?
    Yes, only glitch I have seen so far is that they get renamed first time when channel name changes ("Sky Bundesliga 3" changes to the matches name "Dortmund vs. München"). But it doesn't rename itself back. What I've done here is do a manual rename of these channels. After that they don't get changed automatically. For me it looks like a bug that the automatic renaming is only allowed once per channel.
    There is no automatic renaming code in TV Server, so I'm a bit confused. Is it possible that the linkage scanner is renaming?



    What do you mean by "clean channel list"?
    I mean for me personally I like it more to have a Sports-Group with all potentially available channels in them ("Sky Bundesliga 1" to "Sky Bundesliga 13"). I don't like that portal stuff. Its way more complicated: 1. Open Portal channel; 2. Open Context Menu; 3. Choose desired channel.



    And another point is: if I want to schedule a programme on a channel thats currently off-air...how do I do it? Not possible. If you have these channels in your TVGuide, you can schedule it (at least if EPG-Data is good enough)
    Ahhhh, okay - this makes sense. As mentioned below, I didn't realise that the linkage scanner was only linking to channels that were already in the channel list... and I didn't realise that there was no way to easily record a linked channel.



    simply finding of off-air channels is actually the best solution for the problem.
    For me, yes. Maybe make it an optional check in TV-scanning?
    Maybe. My main purpose in commenting in this thread was to make sure I understand requirements for TVE 3.5.





    then to me it seem like simply finding off-air channels is not the best possible solution
    It may be not the best possible solution. Cannot tell about this really. But its working a 100% perfect for my usercase. I would no want it any other way.

    But I totally understand if other users like the portal way more. Then it would be the job of linkage scanner to work good. But as said: I myself didn't use it for ages, so I cannot tell if it works good or not.
    Okay. So it sounds like the linkage scanner and finding off-air channels are both useful functions. :)


    I think some of the previous posts are somehow confusing since the linkage scanner has nothing to do with finding channel but it simply maps the portal channels to its subchannels (which allready must be in the channel list!).
    Ahhhh, I did not realise that.


    This is where the original TsWriter has problems finding Feed Channels not currently on-air. Your patched TsWriter finds those channels correctly (and yes all of them, even if multiple feeds share one transponder, they still have different SID's) but of course without pmt since pmt is not set if channel is off-air wich not seems to be a problam at all, since the tswriter will set it automatically if the channel is on air.
    Yep, that is correct. :)


    However your patched TsWriter works for scanning channels but not with live tv, at least with MP 1.4. Thats why I tried to implement your changes into the git version of TsWriter wich resulted in a working TsWriter wich finds off-air feeds and works for live tv but also finds unkown channels and whilst channel display name is set correctly it seems tuning parameters name is always unkown.
    The tuning detail name is not really used in TV Server these days. It should be set when a channel is first found (by scanning). If it is not set then it is probably because of code in the TVLibrary.

    I testet the newer slimtv native tvserver where everything works correctly, it finds all channels and no unknown names but the tswriter from slimtv is not compatible with the old tvserver.
    I'm glad to hear your test result. :)
    The change in the patch is included in the SlimTV/TVE 3.5 TsWriter. That TsWriter is work-in-progress. The scanning and PMT interfaces are already not backwards compatible with MP1/TVE 3, and probably other interfaces will also change in future.



    The Problem with Linkage scanner is the way it handles the channel display name because if a channel got renamed it keeps it's name until a new name is set, even if the channel is not linked anymore. This is why I created this little patch for the ChannelLinkageGrabber which renames back channels before they getting deleted from the ChannelLinkageMap. It also renames the Channels a bit different, like "event name (Channel Name)" instead of just "event name".
    Once a channel is found in a normal scan, the Channel.DisplayName is not updated... so I guess you are saying that the linkage scanner updates the name. Is that correct?


    Thanks! :)
    mm
     

    The_Stig

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    There is no automatic renaming code in TV Server, so I'm a bit confused. Is it possible that the linkage scanner is renaming?
    Don't know. Probably then :)

    I didn't realise that the linkage scanner was only linking to channels that were already in the channel list...
    If I remember correct, it does even find channels, which are not in channel list. But don't bet on that. Not sure...

    My main purpose in commenting in this thread was to make sure I understand requirements for TVE 3.5.
    I thought and hoped so!


    Okay. So it sounds like the linkage scanner and finding off-air channels are both useful functions.
    Yes!

    Thanks again for your efforts!
     

    pee

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    The tuning detail name is not really used in TV Server these days. It should be set when a channel is first found (by scanning). If it is not set then it is probably because of code in the TVLibrary.
    I wonder why your older patched tswriter does the scanning job correctly but my newer won't. Maybe I just put some code at the wrong place because I just tried to copy things from your patch file to the git version of tswriter.

    Once a channel is found in a normal scan, the Channel.DisplayName is not updated... so I guess you are saying that the linkage scanner updates the name. Is
    Yes exactly, the LinkageScanner renames sub channels to it's event name but if the channel is not linked anymore it won't get renamed back to its initial name, thats what my patch does, it renames the channel back to the tuning details name exactly the time they get removed from the ChannelLinkageMap.
    A whole new situation came up just now when sky decided to not send any portal data for sky sport and sky bundesliga. Thus neither the channels get renamed back nor will they get removed from the ChannelLinkageMap. Assuming that every portal and sub channel sends at least his own linkage data, it may be the best to rename back and delete every channel from the channel linkage map before adding the newly received data.

    If I remember correct, it does even find channels, which are not in channel list. But don't bet on that. Not sure...
    I don't think so, also the received linkage data only consists of three parameters (tid, nid, sid) which identify the channel but not enough data to create a channel.
     
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    The_Stig

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    If I remember correct, it does even find channels, which are not in channel list. But don't bet on that. Not sure... I don't think so, also the received linkage data only consists of three parameters (tid, nid, sid) which identify the channel but not enough data to create a channel.
    That could explain why some people are complaining about Linkage scanner and others not. I have all channels in my channels list and linkage scanner worked good on my last attempt (probably 2 years ago ;-).
    For others who doesn't have all channels in list, it doesn't work well.
     
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