Ideas for Music Section 1.3 (1 Viewer)

[blubserl]

AW: Ideas for Music Section 1.3

I have some suggestions on the actions menu in the music section of media portal. imho it already has too many entries, which makes the ui seem cluttered. The following numbers refer to the number in the actions menu:

1 Play Now:

I understand that for consistency & completeness this action exists in the actions menu. But is really anyone using this through the context menu, when you could just hit "OK" or "Play" on the remote? I think it could be removed from the actions menu.

2 Play Next:

I personally never use this, but i think it is needed to deal with song requests at parties

4 Queue all items:

I don't think this action is necessary. When one wants to add all songs from an album or from an artist, one queues the album on the album level or the artist on the artist level, right?

6 Show playlist:

We have a button on our remote or keyboard that already does this & additionally we can access the playlist through the side menu.

5 Show album/artist info

i think this is better integrated in the now playing screen and again imo also could be removed from the actions menu.

7 Add to favourites

Maybe this action could be changed to "Add to Playlist". When you choose this action, you get a selection of already stored playlists, including "Favorites". The first entry could be "New" where you could define a new playlist name.

A new action I would really like to see introduced is "Shuffle". I like the approach of the android music player "poweramp" in this case. You select a genre, open the actions menu, choose shuffle. it creates a shuffled playlist of "rock" and immediately jumps to the now playing screen. So simple! Or you select an artist you would like to hear, hit shuffle and it creates a nice shuffled playlist, with all songs from all of his albums. Very effective...

The comfortable thing is that, you don't have to deal with the playlist screen and you don't have to manually switch shuffle mode on/off.

As a conclusion and to get a better idea how my proposed actions menu would look like:

1 Queue item
2 Play next
3 Shuffle
4 Add to playlist
5 Show info
6 Rate

6 instead of 8 Actions, introducing one completely new, useful action.

What do you think?

 

[jameson_uk]

1 Queue item
2 Play next
3 Shuffle
4 Add to playlist
5 Show info
6 Rate

6 instead of 8 Actions, introducing one completely new, useful action.

What do you think?

I agree but others want everything!
I think navigating up a level if you want to play everything makes far more sense but when I attempted this previously people complained at having an extra remote press.

I do need to sort out playlists so will certainly try and do something but too many people want different this (and I do not want to introduce yet more config options)

 

[IchBinsShort]

AW: Ideas for Music Section 1.3

How about a poll about the features in Music 1.3 ? So we can see what the people want ?

 

[jameson_uk]

Re: AW: Ideas for Music Section 1.3

How about a poll about the features in Music 1.3 ? So we can see what the people want ?

The question is time...
Both hwahrmann and myself are pretty busy at work at the moment and there is only so much we can get done. I do not want to have people thinking they will get the world and end up with nothing. There are still a few low level things we need to sort out that are going to take a fair amount of effort, these things are basically

• Rework the player code and remove some of the issues we have (eg. unable to play anything other than 44.1Khz tracks, player crashing MP when switching between music and TV and the code being horrible to read and maintain...)
• Attempt to add WASAPI support
• Add Replay-Gain support

Then we will attempt to add some stuff on top. A quick list of things for sorting is under
Roadmap - MediaPortal Bugtracker

This is already quite a lot and I do want to improve the whole playlist setup as well. This is quite a lot to be going on with (but as ideas come up they will still get considered for inclusion)

 

[doveman]

I don't know about the Action menu, but in my opinion it's best if the most common tasks (i.e. "add to playlist", not sure this should be any different from "Queue item") can be done without having to go into the Action menu, and also the user shouldn't be able to easily mess up their playlist.

So if I'm trying to queue up some songs (i.e. create a playlist) I should be able to press OK (or maybe a coloured button) to do so and perhaps Play should play/audition that song without touching my playlist. There should be a button (maybe one of the coloured ones) to add an album/folder to the playlist, but nothing should wipe my playlist and replace it with a selected album (or it should be hard to do this accidentally, so perhaps this could be done via the Action menu, with a confirmation popup).

Ideally I think the Playlist (or at least the end of it) should be visible on the same screen, so the user can see what songs they've already added and be sure that the last add actually worked, without having to flip between screens. The user should also be able to switch focus between the database and the Playlist, and be able to navigate through and remove songs from the latter (again, preferably with a coloured button).

I appreciate you're very busy and have a lot of work to do already, but hopefully you'll consider the benefits of these suggestions when you have a chance

 

[jameson_uk]

"add to playlist", not sure this should be any different from "Queue item"

Read the whole feedback on 1.2 thead, aparently it is

So if I'm trying to queue up some songs (i.e. create a playlist) I should be able to press OK (or maybe a coloured button) to do so and perhaps Play should play/audition that song without touching my playlist. There should be a button (maybe one of the coloured ones) to add an album/folder to the playlist, but nothing should wipe my playlist and replace it with a selected album (or it should be hard to do this accidentally, so perhaps this could be done via the Action menu, with a confirmation popup).

First off coloured buttons are not an option as these are most definately a european thing (for teletext) and even then a lot of remotes don't have them. In terms of design any action that can be triggered by an action (key press) should also be available in the context menu (eg. in word CTRL+S will save but save is still there under the file menu).

That aside there are some subtleties around what you are saying here that whilst meet your needs do not meet others. Take a simple example of a repeat function. Say a user wants to play an album on repeat they should not have to clear the playlist, add album to playlist, start playback of playlist. Next if a user is playing an album and it is coming to end and they decide that they want to queue up another album to start when this one finishes then they need the ability to do this.

There was a confirmation pop up when clearing the play list in 1.2 beta but that really did not go down well and got removed.

In terms of what you are trying to do, this is possible using the current setup. If you untick the checkbox that is mentioned a few posts ago then pressing play will "audition" tracks but not touch the playlist and "add to playlist" via context menu will add items (so only way to delete your playlist is to actually press clear on playlist screen)

Ideally I think the Playlist (or at least the end of it) should be visible on the same screen, so the user can see what songs they've already added and be sure that the last add actually worked, without having to flip between screens.

But if you have a 100 tracks in a playlist are the last few that will not play for hours really of value to most users? This will take up quite a lot of screen estate and is not really worth it IMHO. What I would like to do if I get chance is to add an indication of whether the song is currently queued up to play as a pin against the actual track (eg. like the record icon pin for TV). This is simple enough but not sure how easy it would be to make work with both the now playing list and a playlist (eg. if a user plays an album but there is a playlist loaded would they expect to see what is in the playlist; but never going to play; or the album tracks...)

The user should also be able to switch focus between the database and the Playlist, and be able to navigate through and remove songs from the latter (again, preferably with a coloured button).

You can navigate directly from the database screen to the playlist screen (and most skins include the ability to do so from now playing too) so you can remove songs / edit the order etc. (F1 does this by default to so could even be mapped to a remote button)

 

[doveman]

Read the whole feedback on 1.2 thead, aparently it is

Will do. I'm not really up-to-date on how things currently work, just wanted to chuck my ideas in there before I forgot

First off coloured buttons are not an option as these are most definately a european thing (for teletext) and even then a lot of remotes don't have them. In terms of design any action that can be triggered by an action (key press) should also be available in the context menu (eg. in word CTRL+S will save but save is still there under the file menu).

I don't really think you should be worrying about how other Windows apps work when designing an HTPC interface. I don't know how many remotes don't have coloured buttons, even in Europe, but I'm not sure that's a good reason not to offer it as an option for those who do have them. netexplorer made a really good start https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/mediaportal-1-talk-45/howto-use-coloured-buttons-remote-101793/ that shows how more user-friendly the interface can be when it has on-screen pointers to show which coloured button does what (of course this could also be used for other buttons such as Play, etc) and doesn't leave the user to have to try and remember which button does what.

It's funny that the Remote config page in MP only shows pictures of remotes with coloured buttons You no doubt know more than me about them, but it seems strange that non-european remotes don't have them, despite not having teletext, as they're very intuitive to use on STB and I just wonder if e.g. US users are deprived of this and have to manage a more difficult UI on their devices.

That aside there are some subtleties around what you are saying here that whilst meet your needs do not meet others. Take a simple example of a repeat function. Say a user wants to play an album on repeat they should not have to clear the playlist, add album to playlist, start playback of playlist. Next if a user is playing an album and it is coming to end and they decide that they want to queue up another album to start when this one finishes then they need the ability to do this.

There was a confirmation pop up when clearing the play list in 1.2 beta but that really did not go down well and got removed.

In terms of what you are trying to do, this is possible using the current setup. If you untick the checkbox that is mentioned a few posts ago then pressing play will "audition" tracks but not touch the playlist and "add to playlist" via context menu will add items (so only way to delete your playlist is to actually press clear on playlist screen).

I agree that the user shouldn't have to go through too many steps to play or add an album, but I equally feel that the user shouldn't have to deal with accidentally wiping the playlist they've been setting up by clicking on the wrong button. It sounds like you've got that covered with the checkbox though, so I'll test that out.

But if you have a 100 tracks in a playlist are the last few that will not play for hours really of value to most users? This will take up quite a lot of screen estate and is not really worth it IMHO. What I would like to do if I get chance is to add an indication of whether the song is currently queued up to play as a pin against the actual track (eg. like the record icon pin for TV). This is simple enough but not sure how easy it would be to make work with both the now playing list and a playlist (eg. if a user plays an album but there is a playlist loaded would they expect to see what is in the playlist; but never going to play; or the album tracks...)

I see your point and I think your idea of a pin might indeed be better. It may not even need to remember this when you leave that folder (if that's hard to implement) but would at least show that the track has been added. If the user could click on the same track to remove it from the playlist again (in case of accidents) that would be great as well.

You can navigate directly from the database screen to the playlist screen (and most skins include the ability to do so from now playing too) so you can remove songs / edit the order etc. (F1 does this by default to so could even be mapped to a remote button)

Sounds good, but does F1 toggle between database and playlist and if so, is this available as an Action in Remote config? If the answer to either is no, then I think we need this as it should be easy to toggle between screens and I don't see a way to map a key like F1 (under the Hauppauge remote config settings at least).

 

[jameson_uk]

I don't really think you should be worrying about how other Windows apps work when designing an HTPC interface.

Disagree, this is about good design really rather than worrying about other apps. What about a user who is using this via a mouse or on a mobile type remote with only a limited number of keys? (I know it is not a good idea but even so....) The existing interface needs work but we can not really have standard functions not there in the context menus.

I don't know how many remotes don't have coloured buttons, even in Europe, but I'm not sure that's a good reason not to offer it as an option for those who do have them. netexplorer made a really good start https://forum.team-mediaportal.com/mediaportal-1-talk-45/howto-use-coloured-buttons-remote-101793/ that shows how more user-friendly the interface can be when it has on-screen pointers to show which coloured button does what (of course this could also be used for other buttons such as Play, etc) and doesn't leave the user to have to try and remember which button does what.

Most remotes don't actually coloured buttons. The picture in config is because MP devs are mainly in Europe Many many people use harmony remotes and just do a google image search for harmony remote and you will see that they do not have coloured buttons. Yes Hamony remotes can be programmed but there are plenty of other remotes without coloured buttons that can not. We simply can not have a default that many people can not use (and that partly leads to the bit above too).

Check out any US store and there are not too many remote with coloured buttons (Newegg.com - Universal Remotes)

We can make shortcuts that power users can choose to use but these will never be used for core functionality. Eg. red is mapped to jumping to full screen but in music you can do this by choosing the now playing option from the menu so this is just a shortcut.

Sounds good, but does F1 toggle between database and playlist and if so, is this available as an Action in Remote config? If the answer to either is no, then I think we need this as it should be easy to toggle between screens and I don't see a way to map a key like F1 (under the Hauppauge remote config settings at least).

You can map any remote function to the show playlist action (this is what F1 is mapped to) and yes this simply jumps between the music browsing and playlist screens


In short the interface for dealing with playlists is crap now (and worse than in 1.1) but it does not match what I think is the logical flow of CD player type functionality (and the same as most other players). People who have got used to MP and the fact it does things in different ways will not appreciate that because it was working for them before but I am planning on improving playlist handling but it is not that simple (and there were still serious flaws with the way it worked previously)

 

[doveman]

Disagree, this is about good design really rather than worrying about other apps. What about a user who is using this via a mouse or on a mobile type remote with only a limited number of keys? (I know it is not a good idea but even so....) The existing interface needs work but we can not really have standard functions not there in the context menus.

Fair points, I appreciate it makes it hard to make an interface that works well with several different types of control, although I can't really understand why anyone would rather use anything other than a proper remote with an HTPC

Most remotes don't actually coloured buttons. The picture in config is because MP devs are mainly in Europe Many many people use harmony remotes and just do a google image search for harmony remote and you will see that they do not have coloured buttons. Yes Hamony remotes can be programmed but there are plenty of other remotes without coloured buttons that can not. We simply can not have a default that many people can not use (and that partly leads to the bit above too).

Check out any US store and there are not too many remote with coloured buttons (Newegg.com - Universal Remotes)

We can make shortcuts that power users can choose to use but these will never be used for core functionality. Eg. red is mapped to jumping to full screen but in music you can do this by choosing the now playing option from the menu so this is just a shortcut.

I can't really agree. There seems to be quite a few with coloured buttons there (maybe half) and I don't know if the ones with programmable screens can have coloured buttons put there. I'm not sure it would be terrible to decide that MP's interface is more user-friendly with on-screen coloured button shortcuts and that only remotes with these buttons will be fully supported/compatible. That obviously doesn't mean that there can't also be pop-up menus to do the same thing for users that don't have coloured buttons, or let them use remote config to reassign those functions to whatever other button they like. For instance, if someone with coloured buttons could press Red on the EPG to quickly set a recording and Yellow to quickly set a reminder, I don't see how they would detriment anyone without coloured buttons, who'd have to go through menus to do that as they do now.

It's funny because I've got used to having the red button go to full-screen TV/Video now, but when I previously suggested using it as an on-screen shortcut (along with the other coloured buttons), I was told that wasn't possible as it was designated for this important function. It didn't occur to me that a lot of users don't have this button Perhaps there's a way to make another button do the same thing via remote config though?

You can map any remote function to the show playlist action (this is what F1 is mapped to) and yes this simply jumps between the music browsing and playlist screens

Thanks, that's good. I'll go and set that now

In short the interface for dealing with playlists is crap now (and worse than in 1.1) but it does not match what I think is the logical flow of CD player type functionality (and the same as most other players). People who have got used to MP and the fact it does things in different ways will not appreciate that because it was working for them before but I am planning on improving playlist handling but it is not that simple (and there were still serious flaws with the way it worked previously)

I can't really comment much on the current interface as I haven't spent much time with it (too busy trying to get other bits and pieces sorted) but it sounds like you've got a plan and I'm looking forward to seeing the new improved version

 

[philippe]

I am using foobar with the foo_input_sacd module.
With this plugin you can play SACD ISO RIP with foobar.
It would be nice if mediaportal do the same.