Feedback on 1.2 music changes (1 Viewer)

[Harley]

AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

Hi,
sorry to say, but i personal do not like the changes on musicsection of 1.2.
The old behavior of musicsection (1.1) was much intuitiver then one we have now.
If you click on a song, mp should play it and after that it should play the next in the folder,
thats all, nothing to add to playlist or anything else. If i will add something to a playlist we
should us the "add to playlist" button on remote control or the "y" button on keyboard, like it was before.

Greetings Harley

The default options still do this, other than the jump to option there is no change to 1.1. pressing play or ok on a track will start playback on that track and then play through the rest in that folder. If the screen is changing to the playlist screen then this is the "jump to" setting in config which can be changed. If it does not do this then check that play mode is selected and the add all option is ticked

Hi jameson_uk,

perhaps there is something wrong with the default options in MP. It seems Mp does by a clean install not go to the default options then.
I think the way Mp has handled the muiscpart was perfekt and absolute intuitiv in 1.1 and before.
The changes in musicpart in MP 1.2 does make the things more complicate and not good usable.
I also not see any better doing things with that changes.
The music part has todo only some basic funktions, like drop on a song it should play and after that it should play the next song in folder (think that is most used funktion by playing muisc)
And having a fast used button to add songs to a playlist. Thats all what is needed in most cases i think.
That was perfect working in mp 1.1.
So i think important is that this basicfunktions does work after installing MP 1.2
Mp 1.2 should work exactly like 1.1 after installing without the need todo any changes in config.

Fo the smal group of users that will have there other options or funktions, that should be done by config if it´s needed.

Greetings Harley

 

[jameson_uk]

Re: AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

perhaps there is something wrong with the default options in MP. It seems Mp does by a clean install not go to the default options then.
I think the way Mp has handled the muiscpart was perfekt and absolute intuitiv in 1.1 and before.
The changes in musicpart in MP 1.2 does make the things more complicate and not good usable.
I also not see any better doing things with that changes.
The music part has todo only some basic funktions, like drop on a song it should play and after that it should play the next song in folder (think that is most used funktion by playing muisc)
And having a fast used button to add songs to a playlist. Thats all what is needed in most cases i think.
That was perfect working in mp 1.1.
So i think important is that this basicfunktions does work after installing MP 1.2
Mp 1.2 should work exactly like 1.1 after installing without the need todo any changes in config.

Fo the smal group of users that will have there other options or funktions, that should be done by config if it´s needed.

Greetings Harley

In config what options are set in the playlist behaviour box (Music 1.2 - MediaPortal Wiki) ???

By default this should be play mode and add all to tracks to playlist should be ticked.

With this option as I said before, pressing ok on a track will do exactly as you say, play all the tracks in the folder starting with the one you selected. This is no different to 1.1.

I am not sure what you are saying is actually different??

 

[Der_Bub]

Re: AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

perhaps there is something wrong with the default options in MP. It seems Mp does by a clean install not go to the default options then.
I think the way Mp has handled the muiscpart was perfekt and absolute intuitiv in 1.1 and before.
The changes in musicpart in MP 1.2 does make the things more complicate and not good usable.
I also not see any better doing things with that changes.
The music part has todo only some basic funktions, like drop on a song it should play and after that it should play the next song in folder (think that is most used funktion by playing muisc)
And having a fast used button to add songs to a playlist. Thats all what is needed in most cases i think.
That was perfect working in mp 1.1.
So i think important is that this basicfunktions does work after installing MP 1.2
Mp 1.2 should work exactly like 1.1 after installing without the need todo any changes in config.

Fo the smal group of users that will have there other options or funktions, that should be done by config if it´s needed.

Greetings Harley

In config what options are set in the playlist behaviour box (Music 1.2 - MediaPortal Wiki) ???

By default this should be play mode and add all to tracks to playlist should be ticked.

With this option as I said before, pressing ok on a track will do exactly as you say, play all the tracks in the folder starting with the one you selected. This is no different to 1.1.

I am not sure what you are saying is actually different??

well, I tried to say it before: With 1.1 the playlist was unchanged...

by the way: Hope you don't take al the ctics personaly Recognizing that things aren't the way they should (or like to have) is easy, making it perfect from the beginning something totaly different!

 

[jameson_uk]

I think we are all agreed that the basic functions that should be done well are playing tracks and queuing tracks?

For me this is something quite awkward in MP 1.1 in that if you start playback by selecting a track there is no way to queue anything up. You have to stop start playback using the play button and then you can add tracks pressing Y (which is actually the queue item action not add to playlist) or using the context menu.

This for me is not intuitive and is actually confusing and annoying yet is the very basic functionality people are talking about.

Ignore the playlist stuff for a minute (I know this is an issue but take that out the equation because in 1.1 the playlist being used most the time was actually hidden from view) and I am struggling to find an actual report of what is different. There is talk of context menus and that MP should just play a track when select it and then play all the tracks in that folder. But this has not changed at all.

If that is not happening with the default options then this is a bug or a problem with the default settings (but I did a clean install yesterday and the correct values were used)

by the way: Hope you don't take al the ctics personaly Recognizing that things aren't the way they should (or like to have) is easy, making it perfect from the beginning something totaly different!

Not at all.... else I would not have bothered creating the thread

The playlist stuff has changed yes and this causes some issues but if you never open the playlist screen and use the basic use cases of play music and queue music then very little has changed since 1.1

 

[Der_Bub]

For me this is something quite awkward in MP 1.1 in that if you start playback by selecting a track there is no way to queue anything up. You have to stop start playback using the play button and then you can add tracks pressing Y (which is actually the queue item action not add to playlist) or using the context menu.

This time I don't understand what you mean. As far as I can rember I could start any track I liked to and after that add tracks to playlist?!? Or did I missunderstood something?!?

Ignore the playlist stuff for a minute (I know this is an issue but take that out the equation because in 1.1 the playlist being used most the time was actually hidden from view) and I am struggling to find an actual report of what is different. There is talk of context menus and that MP should just play a track when select it and then play all the tracks in that folder. But this has not changed at all.

ignoring playlist stuff is hard... the "play continously on" thing works only, if all tracks added to playlist. In my opinion the playlist Functionality shouldn't mixed with the playback Functionality (by default)!

 

[Jeditrav]

For me this is something quite awkward in MP 1.1 in that if you start playback by selecting a track there is no way to queue anything up. You have to stop start playback using the play button and then you can add tracks pressing Y (which is actually the queue item action not add to playlist) or using the context menu.

That's because you are not 'actively' using a playlist, just starting playback by selecting a track - it should just play that track then move onto the next track in the folder/album. Sounds to me like you're trying to force playlist use in every single occasion, whether 'add to playlist' has been used or not. Use a playlist if wanting to queue tracks up. Otherwise, just playback.

In my opinion the playlist Functionality shouldn't mixed with the playback Functionality

Agreed!

 

[Jeditrav]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

What 'issues' were there in v1.1? It seemed fine to me. Not only did it work, but it was intuitive - once I had pointed out to people that pressing the 'info' button on my remote brought up the context menu, everyone was able to just pick it up and use it to browse and play music, create playlists - there was never any trouble. It is no longer 'intuitive' - people are browsing around music using the arrow buttons on the remote and then the intuitive thing to do is press 'ok' to either 'enter' an album or to 'play' a track depending on what was selected. Now people are having to press 'ok' for one thing, 'play' for another, 'record' to add to playlist but not the playlist that's currently playing (???) ...

Also go back an try play and ok... they do very different things in 1.1. In 1.2 the default is actually to make play and ok do exactly the same to avoid this confusion. By default both buttons now do the same thing and play the selected item (this is then consistent with other bits of MP where say you click on a recording and it will be that recording that plays)

Yes, Play and OK did different things in v1.1, but they intuitively did the correct thing depending on where you were. With an Album selected, press Play and it would play; press OK and it would enter the album and show track listings. With a track selected, press OK or Play and it would play - without any interference with the playlist, which was a seperate thing.

The other thing that was missing was basic functionality for a "now playlist" list .

??? Not sure what you mean by this.

There was no way (under most circumstances) to actually tell what track would play the one after next.

If you're in Album/Track view and have just started playing from there, you can see the track listing - no problem, it just goes to the next track, then the next track. If you're in the playlist screen you can see the playlist, so no problem. If you're in the Now Playing screen it shows what is playing Now, and what is to play Next. This is the only instance I can think of where you can't see what is going to play after the Next track - is this really a problem?

So if you played a CD on autoplay you would not be able to actually see the track listing without then browsing through to shares view and into the CD folder

I don't have CD set to 'autoplay', but I had the 'Jump To' set to 'Current Playlist if Multiple Tracks'. When I played a CD with the PlayCD option, it would jump to the Playlist screen, populated with all the tracks on the CD, all named from internet lookup. Never had to go to 'shares' view and browse into the CD folder, so not sure what your problem was.

There are many links to "current playlist" in MP but these linked to something which did not bare any relevance to what is playing (or will play)

Because what was currently playing was not necessarily the current playlist. This enabled people to do stuff like 'audition' a track before choosing whether to add it the playlist or not. Personally, I was always able to keep my head wrapped around the two seperate things.

There was no way to actually queue tracks when already playing something (if play was started with ok)

Once again, the difference between playback of the currently selected track and playback/creation of a playlist. Wasn't there a 'Play Next' option in the context menu anyway?

The jump on play option was not consistent

Was for me. Always jumped to the 'Current Playlist if Multiple Tracks' consistently and correctly.

Also the context menu is still there so I am not sure what your point is about that.

My point with the context menu was that previously all I had to do with visitors wanting to use the music section of my media centre was point out to them that there was a context menu with additional options, everything else worked intuitively for them - there were never any problems. Now, I have to sit down with them for a half hour tutorial and teach them about different buttons & different modes - and they still keep coming back to me with issues and frustrations, because it no longer works 'intuitively'.

I am looking to make a slight change (names only not in function) so that the "playlist" mode is renamed "queue" mode and that the "add to playlist" context menu item is renamed "queue item". Then I will implement proper playlist support at a later date.

??? I don't get it. There were/are already context menu options to Play Next or Play Now, and if you were using a playlist there were/are options to add to it either 'Enqueue Next' or 'Add to the end' of the playlist. Seems like you're making things more complicated than they need to be and I fail to see why.


I hope I've understood your points correctly, and I hope my responses are also understandable. Unfortunately, I no longer have v1.1 installed so am having to rely on an imperfect memory of how things used to work!

 

[Der_Bub]

AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

...
Yes, Play and OK did different things in v1.1, but they intuitively did the correct thing depending on where you were. With an Album selected, press Play and it would play; press OK and it would enter the album and show track listings. With a track selected, press OK or Play and it would play - without any interference with the playlist, which was a seperate thing.

funny, I asked my self all the discussion long what this difefrence was and assumed I had mapped the buttons in another way to the remote, so these differences didn't affected me.
But with your explanation I get it and can confirm! Espacially used it without noticing this differences...

One further thing that I will miss or two extra cklicks that where not needed with the "old style"...

 

[jameson_uk]

ignoring playlist stuff is hard... the "play continously on" thing works only, if all tracks added to playlist. In my opinion the playlist Functionality shouldn't mixed with the playback Functionality (by default)!

I am talking about simply never opening the playlist screen. To do the basic use case of playing and queuing tracks you never actually need to go into the playlist screen.

That's because you are not 'actively' using a playlist, just starting playback by selecting a track - it should just play that track then move onto the next track in the folder/album. Sounds to me like you're trying to force playlist use in every single occasion, whether 'add to playlist' has been used or not. Use a playlist if wanting to queue tracks up. Otherwise, just playback.

No matter what you do playback is controlled via playlists (and was in MP 1.1). What was different in 1.1 was that under certain situations the actual playlist being used would be hidden from you and you would be displayed something that may or may not have been related to what is actually playing.

The other thing that was missing was basic functionality for a "now playlist" list .

??? Not sure what you mean by this.

Of all the players I have installed on this machine (WMP, Foobar, Winamp and MediaMonkey) every single one of these has a list of tracks that are queued up to play. This was missing (sometimes) in MP 1.1. This to me is basic functionality that users expect and is available in every player I can find except for MP. Whether you call this a playlist (WMP does) or a "now playing list" it is still a list of tracks that are queued up to play.

Yes, Play and OK did different things in v1.1, but they intuitively did the correct thing depending on where you were. With an Album selected, press Play and it would play; press OK and it would enter the album and show track listings. With a track selected, press OK or Play and it would play - without any interference with the playlist, which was a seperate thing.

First off this is not right and secondly most functionality still works just like this. Pressing select on a folder will always open the folder (as it did before). Pressing play on a folder will play that folder (as it did before). With default settings pressing ok on a track will play that track and all in the folder (as it did before).

The only two differences are that (a) what is playing will now be shown on the playlist screen and (b) pressing play on a track will also play all the tracks in that folder (what actually happened in 1.1 was that pressing play on a track would clear the playlist, add that single track to the playlist and only play that single track).

So other than adding tracks to the playlist the play button is now doing what you thought it should in MP 1.1.

 

[Der_Bub]

AW: Re: Feedack on 1.2 music changes

...
No matter what you do playback is controlled via playlists (and was in MP 1.1). What was different in 1.1 was that under certain situations the actual playlist being used would be hidden from you and you would be displayed something that may or may not have been related to what is actually playing.
...

The only two differences are that (a) what is playing will now be shown on the playlist screen and (b) pressing play on a track will also play all the tracks in that folder (what actually happened in 1.1 was that pressing play on a track would clear the playlist, add that single track to the playlist and only play that single track).

maybe the "hidden" playlist is the key?!? Because it saved in 1.1 the "current" playlist from deleting?

And the diffrent behaviour of play/ok. In 1.1 it was possible to use the ok for continous playback (if a track was selected), Play was (for me) only needed for a folder/album. With 1.2 "all to playlist" has to be active and "listen bevor adding" is not usable.

Maybe there has to be distinguish between 2 "Types" of Playlist's:

• actual playing
• and actual editing

?